D&D (2024) Scaling monsters in the Monster Manual?

[tetrasodium]

That was the suggestion. To make monster blocks scale.

We have seen better options that provide the gm far more control and nuance than the ability to rejigger the cr of each monster to a bunch of other preset or formulaically adjusted options. Notably the use of templates as 3.x provided the to massage both cr and theme of monsters

 

[Clint_L]

I don't want to see a ton of monsters added to the MM just for scaling, but I could see adding some, particularly to better facilitate wild shape.

However, I've never found it hard to quickly upscale or downscale a monster as needed for an adventure. DnDBeyond makes this very simple, because you have the option of starting with a template for any monster that already exists in the game and modifying it to your heart's content. I do "boss" versions of various monsters all the time; it takes me a few minutes and then it's there in the database, ready to be used in the encounter builder and everywhere else.

 

[Tonguez]

i've been experimenting with using Monster Roles as templates to adjust the basic MM monsters - So on top of the standard monster you can make stat, HP, AC and attack adjustments for Lurker, Skirmisher, Defender and Leader/Controller versions.

Then these things like having a single Ghost entry (incorporeal, sunlight sensitive) with a selectable menu of abilities like: Grapple, Life Drain, Possession, Wail, Harrow, Insanity, Animate etc and then Wraith or Spectre or Poltergeist get relegated to single lines to describe any differences between them

 

[DEFCON 1]

Maybe if they have a scaling table in monster book, and a scaling app.

But leave the stat block in the books fixed.

I personally don't know if WotC should devote page count to it, as this is something that is prime design space for all the 3rd party designers out there. I mean, isn't this exactly the space where @Nixlord sits with all of their Monster Manual Expanded books? Scaled versions of MM monsters? Why would WotC take that away from them? And why should we want them to (other than just not wanting to spend more money on another monster book?)

 

[R_J_K75]

If an encounter ends in a TPK, players have 6-siders, no harm no foul. I think 3E and forward tried too hard to scale monsters/encounters with PCs which took away from the game in a way. Honestly if there are rules to scale a monster from level X to level Y, no thanks, I can't be bothered to do the math. I think the game has lost something once it started looking for balance amongst classes and encounters.

 

[Zubatcarteira]

Pathfinder 2e has numbers for statistics per level that a monster can have, so you can level a creature up and down pretty easily. If it has High AC as a level 5, just give it the High AC value for level 10 if you want to make it stronger like that. It's not perfect, since there's abilities that don't rely on numbers that'd be broken if they're scaled up or down, but I've found that it works alright most of the time, and there's some online tools that adjust the statblock for you with just a slide.

I think I saw something like that for 5e once, but I couldn't find it again. It should be simple enough for WoTC to make a tool for it on D&D Beyond though.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I personally don't know if WotC should devote page count to it, as this is something that is prime design space for all the 3rd party designers out there. I mean, isn't this exactly the space where @Nixlord sits with all of their Monster Manual Expanded books? Scaled versions of MM monsters?

Sort of, but the gaps he's plugging are more than "we need a CR 4 goblin."

He's filling in conceptual and tactical gaps, as well as -- without making a big deal about of it -- essentially offering alternatives to official versions of monsters that are poorly thought out or have math that doesn't make sense.

That said, "here are 20 bears, from CR 1 to CR 20" is indeed something that's an ideal thing for someone to tackle as a third-party developer.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

i've been experimenting with using Monster Roles as templates to adjust the basic MM monsters - So on top of the standard monster you can make stat, HP, AC and attack adjustments for Lurker, Skirmisher, Defender and Leader/Controller versions.

Then these things like having a single Ghost entry (incorporeal, sunlight sensitive) with a selectable menu of abilities like: Grapple, Life Drain, Possession, Wail, Harrow, Insanity, Animate etc and then Wraith or Spectre or Poltergeist get relegated to single lines to describe any differences between them

This is a great combination of 3E and 4E design thinking. I love it.

 

[Clint_L]

Sort of, but the gaps he's plugging are more than "we need a CR 4 goblin."

He's filling in conceptual and tactical gaps, as well as -- without making a big deal about of it -- essentially offering alternatives to official versions of monsters that are poorly thought out or have math that doesn't make sense.

That said, "here are 20 bears, from CR 1 to CR 20" is indeed something that's an ideal thing for someone to tackle as a third-party developer.

The Big, Bad Book of Bears for 5e. Dibs!

Edit: I'm going to franchise it. The Big, Bad Book of Beers for 5e is next.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

The Big, Bad Book of Beers for 5e is next.

You make a compelling case for an all-dwarf campaign.