Dragon Breath Recharge Question

[Pielorinho]

Nah. I just disagree with what you think "wait 1 round" means. Here's the way it appears to me...

"until 1 round later" = you can breathe next round
"wait 1 round" = you can breathe again after you have waited one round, and if you just breathed last round, then you didn't wait one round

Yeah, I see what you're saying -- I'm just saying, that's not what it means where i come from .

Look at it this way. Suppose that you're right as to what "wait 1 round" means, but I'm right as to how long a dragon really has to wait.

That is, a dragon may not breathe twice in the same round (even if hasted), but it may breathe in the very next round.

How many rounds must it wait? Would it be correct to say that the dragon must wait 0 rounds between breathing?

The way I see it, between my initiative number in round 1 and my initiative number in round 2, one round has passed. Since I didn't do anything during that round, I waited 1 round.

Compare also to spells with a 1 full round casting time: you start on your initiative score (say, 16) and end just before your next initiative score. One round passed, right?

Now, suppose that a dragon breathed on you just before you went (it had readied an action to do so). Then you begin casting your Summoning spell. The dragon, just to be sure, delays his action until just after the solar appears.

At that point, it's waited one full round, measured out by the casting time of your summoning spell. I'm saying it gets to breathe again now, assuming it rolled well.

Daniel

 

[Zhure]

IDHMBWM, but "Breath Weapon (Su): Using a breath weapon is a standard action. Once a dragon breathes, it can’t breathe again until 1d4 rounds later. If the dragon has more than one type of breath weapon, it still can breathe only once every 1d4 rounds."

I can certainly understand the interpretation of a minimum of a null round between each use, so there's a minimum of skipping one round of breathing, but everyone I know IRL plays it that a '1' means next round. So a lucky dragon can breathe every round.

I dislike the metagaming imagery of "Get him, he can't breathe again this round!"

:shrug:
Greg

 

[kreynolds]

So a lucky dragon can breathe every round.

When you quote the SRD, I agree. When you quote MMI, I agree. When you quote MoF, I agree. When you quote MMII, I disagree. See what I'm saying? If you do, then there's no reason to shrug, as nobody is saying that the dragon can't breathe the very next round if it rolls a 1 according to the SRD, MMI, or MoF.

I dislike the metagaming imagery of "Get him, he can't breathe again this round!"

Then how do you handle the situation of a retriever using all four rays within 2 rounds?

 

[kreynolds]

Compare also to spells with a 1 full round casting time: you start on your initiative score (say, 16) and end just before your next initiative score. One round passed, right?

Yes, but you were casting last round, and if you had to wait one round before you could cast again, then you couldn't cast the next round, because you didn't wait, because you were casting just last round. In other words, a round didn't go by where you didn't cast (there was no waiting).

 

[Zhure]

The shrug wasn't condescending or derogatory. To each their own, on this ruling.

As for a retreiver, let him blast away.

Greg

 

[Pielorinho]

Originally posted by kreynolds Yes, but you were casting last round, and if you had to wait one round before you could cast again, then you couldn't cast the next round, because you didn't wait, because you were casting just last round. In other words, a round didn't go by where you didn't cast (there was no waiting).

(emphasis added)

Yeah, but I'm saying something sneakier than that. I'm saying that the dragon waited one full round, as measured by the spellcaster's summoning spell's casting time, between breaths.

Daniel

 

[kreynolds]

The shrug wasn't condescending or derogatory.

Oh, I know. I didn't take it as such.

As for a retreiver, let him blast away.

He can't. He just used all four rays within two rounds. He has to wait another five rounds before he can use them again. What I'm asking is this; Why is it a problem for a player to assume that the retriever has exhausted his uses of his eye rays for a short while when he wildy blasted four of them in the space of six seconds, but all of the sudden, stopped?

 

[Zhure]

Stupid rules. This is why I never used 'canned' monsters. :whips out pencil and Monster Manual:

It'd be a house rule, which isn't really germane to the rules thread, but if I used retrievers (and I don't), I'd change them to make them less predictable to help prevent meta-gaming.

Yes, I'm ducking the question. If one of the players actually said something like that, I suppose he'd get blasted anyway. Monsters are my territory, not the players.

Greg

 

[kreynolds]

I'm saying that the dragon waited one full round, as measured by the spellcaster's summoning spell's casting time, between breaths.

I don't follow. How does that shorten the amount of time to "wait"?

 

[Pielorinho]

re: the hijack: if I used kreynold's MMII interpretation (that a dragon could no way no how breathe twice in two consecutive rounds), then I'd assume this behavior was part of the lore of dragonslayers. I would not have a problem with educated dragonfighters using this to their advantage, any more than I'd have a problem with educated trollslayers bringing fire into the battle.

But I don't rule it that way, so it's not an issue .

Daniel