coyote6 said:
Not strictly true; large creatures' carrying capacities are doubled.
I think it is a mental block. I keep trying to forget about this stupid rule, so I do.
coyote6 said:
True. Perhaps they tried in playtest, but couldn't come up with any simple rules that weren't too abusable? Anybody have any ideas for easy-to-use rules that don't make enlarge the Best Buffing Spell Ever?
Ok, the following is long.
The reason they have such poor size rules is based on their lack of desire to create semi-realistic strength and mass rules.
Let me explain.
The Strength Chart goes up by 10 Strength points and that quadruples your Strength. +5 damage for quadruple strength. Seems a tad light. If a Fighter with 18 Strength does 1D8+4 points with a sword, a creature double his size with a sword that weighs 8x as much should do 4x that damage or 4D8+16. Instead, it does 1D10+9.
Hmmm.
34 points versus 14.5 points. In the first case, PCs would be killed right and left with a shot by a single Ogre, let alone Giants or Dragons. So, they use the lesser mechanics of the second case.
So, a humanoid creature of a similar musculature 12 feet tall should be 4x as strong (4x the surface area of muscles attached to bones) as a 6 foot humanoid, but in reality, the damage it does is not.
This cannot be fixed without such major alterations to the system that most players would object to (basically, you might have to make Str 10 a +0 modifier to damage, Str 11 a +1, etc. as one potential solution). So, we can ignore this type of solution since nobody would buy into making this too realistic.
As a side note: 3E also has a problem with its Strength checks. If I am 4x stronger than you, you should almost never make a strength check against me unless you get lucky and catch me off balance or something.
D20 vs. D20+5. The 4x weaker guy wins 30.25% of the time when he initiates the check and 27.5% of the time when the stronger guy initiates the check.
This is just an out and out an extremely non-realistic rule. But again, if they made it more realistic, PC Fighters would rarely trip an Ogre or Giant. Course, that is how it should be, but they are looking at it from a heroic fantasy perspective, not a realistic one.
This one can be fixed if desired by using the Strength number as opposed to the Strength modifier. I did this in my game when a single 16 Str PC was able to easily push open a door that a 23 Str Troll at 2.6x as strong was trying to hold shut. Bogus.
Anyway, back to the size issue.
The first thing you have to do is get rid of that stupid large creatures can carry 2x weight, huge 4x weight, etc. rule (keep the one for smaller creatures). A creature twice your height should be able to carry 4x as much, not 8x as much. A creature twice your height should have a Str 10 greater than you, they should not have a Strength 10 greater than you AND be able to carry x2 more.
Ogre: 9 to 10 feet: Str 21
Hill Giant: 10 1/2 feet tall: Str 25
Stone Giant: 12 feet tall: Str 27
So, if a human at 6 feet tall has a maximum strength of 18 (starting out), the stone giant at twice his height gets +9 Str and x2 carrying capacity. That’s fairly hefty. Why? Because they did not really follow any rules here and starting with a strength slightly > 18 for the ogre, had to keep bumping it up for the others.
Storm Giant: 21 feet tall: Str 39
Twice as tall as a Hill Giant, but +12 Strength and x2 carrying capacity more. Why? Creatures twice as tall should be 4x as strong, not 10.4x as strong.
So, a Storm Giant at 39 Strength should be able to carry 5600 pounds, not 22400 pounds. Btw, you’ll note that they do not often use the +8 Str rule from page 12 of the MM when it comes to their creatures.
I wonder why.
A Storm Giant can carry 224x as much as a human with a 10 Strength (with the x4 for huge rule), but the human does an average of 5.5 points of damage with a greatsword and the Storm Giant does 35 points of damage with his greatsword. 224x as strong and he does 6 times as much damage. Yeah, that makes sense.
Just because humans are strong enough to carry another human on their back does not mean that Storm Giants should be strong enough to carry another Storm Giant on their backs. Ants can carry the equivalent of an Ant car. Does that mean humans should be able to do that?
So, double height should mean +10 Strength.
Unfortunately, this falls apart for Halflings and Gnomes and smaller creatures due to the linearity of the Strength Chart, but you have to ignore that and blow it off. Lowering a halflings Strength by 2 due to size is extremely silly, but that’s the rule. Nobody would take a halfling if you reduced it by much more. The average male human at 175 pounds can heavy load carry 100 pounds whereas the average male halfling at 35 pounds can heavy load carry 60 pounds (-2 Str, 75% carrying capacity)? Halflings are carrying MONSTERS based on their size and can carry nearly twice their weight.
If you use 2x height = +10 Strength, then you can extrapolate to 1.1x height = +1 Str, etc.
So, the best rule I know for Enlarge is to not allow size changes, but to add +1 Str per 10%.
Now, some people have a problem with +5 maximum Strength for Enlarge (first level spell) and 2-5 Strength for Bull’s Strength (second level spell).
Why?
Enlarge Pros: +5 Strength max.
Enlarge Cons: Lasts 1 minute per level, hence, typically one combat. 50% larger, so you become a target since opponents should know that larger opponents tend to be stronger. Cannot be Empowered or Maximized.
Bull’s Strength Pros: Lasts one hour per level, hence, many combats. Typically unobservable (i.e. opponents should have harder time guessing that you are enhanced). Can be Empowered or Maximized.
Bull’s Strength Cons: 2-5 Strength as opposed to +5 Strength max.
So, it appears that Bull’s Strength is considerably better overall, even if you give Enlarge +1 per 10%.
That can also be done for Righteous Might. Who cares if you give them +5 to hit and +5 damage and reach? It lasts one round per level, can be dispelled, cannot be augmented too much with metamagic, and 12 foot tall humans are the first ones my NPCs would target with spells and missile weapons (not necessarily melee weapons).
Polymorph spells already get you up to big strengths, so what’s the difference? Polymorphing into a Stone Giant and getting a 27 Strength, or Righteous Might at +10 Strength for most characters? They are both 5th level spells.
So, to sum up this long message, have +10 Strength for a doubling of size for spells. This is really not as abusive as people tend to make it out.
Use the size increase chart on page 12 of the MM for the rest (except unless you want to bump up Large+ to Huge+ increase to +10 instead of +8). That chart is really not that bad.
Yup, spells that increase your height then become potent. But, they generally cannot be enhanced too much, are of short duration, and their recipients tend to be targets. Seems fair to me.
