DRAGON & DUNGEON Magazine PDFs Coming To An Online Store Near You!

Right now, there are only three issues (all from the D&D 4E period), but WotC has just put two issues of DUNGEON Magazine and one issue of DRAGON Magazine up online in PDF format for $4.99 each. Does this mean more are to come? (Thanks to Echohawk for the scoop).

The issues in question are DRAGON #364, DUNGEON #155, and DUNGEON #156. They're available at dndclassics.com, which is the branch of DTRPG/RPGNow which is geared towards just WotC material, and which contains tons of back-catalogue stuff from various editions.

This is an interesting development, and something fans have been asking for for a while. I've grabbed the DRAGON issue, and it's a good quality PDF, the same compilation originally from D&D Insider. Sadly, not in a format suitable for print-on-demand (but hey, I can dream!)

DRAGON #364


DUNGEON #156


DUNGEON #155

​

 

[Jeremy E Grenemyer]

Not true. I've gotten back issues of DUNGEON from a local comic store for $2 or $3 a pop.

To clarify: I was talking about the purchase of brand new issues, not back issues.

Happy you found old stuff on the cheap. I snatch up old Dragon and Dungeon issues wherever I can find them.

 

[Alzrius]

WotC does not have the right to reprint some of the Dragon contents, in particular several of the comics and the fiction not tied to their game worlds. They only avoided a class action suit in answer to the CD ROM archive by striking a deal with SFFWA and some of the individual creators who did not sign work-for-hire contracts.

As with the CD ROM, many of the writers and artists would likely grant permission for free or for a small payment, if WotC bothered to ask for the permission first. They need to acknowledge the contracts they signed that did not buy all rights. They didn't ask last time. I would hope they learned something from previous mistakes, if they're thinking of pursuing PDF publication again.

I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding was that it wasn't a "class action" lawsuit; rather, it was a suit from a small number of parties (Kenzer being the biggest one), and that it resulted in a settlement, rather than a judgment, as many suits of this type are wont to do.

I've also heard that this was largely due to the fact that there was a question of whether or not buying the rights to the first publication only of something was necessarily infringed by putting out (digital) archives; that was the key question, as I recall. While it wasn't answered thanks to the settlement, I've seen at least one reference to a case that was taken to a judgment, which determined that such an archival release was found to not be an infringement in that regard.

As I said though, that's just what I've heard - at this point, I can't even recall the source, so take this as being third-hand rumors.

 

[delericho]

It's also worth noting that part of the issue with the archive was that TSR had discarded or lost a lot of the original contracts, so often they simply didn't know what rights they owned. That's much less of an issue with more recent materials, where at least they do have those contracts.

So a Dungeon archive spanning all the way back to issue #1 is maybe unlikely, but it should be possible to make Dragon #251+ and at least the 3e/4e Dungeon issues available - even if they do have to remove KotDT, Wil Save, and Gygax's Soapbox columns.

 

[JLowder]

Sorry. I probably should have mentioned this in the first post.

I had creator-copyrighted material used in the archive without my permission and had a front row seat on the whole mess. As a former TSR employee who still knew a fair number of people out in Renton, I contacted WotC at the management level before the archive was released and alerted them to the backlash developing in publishing circles. (They were publishing Amazing Stories at the time, and there was a lot of talk about a boycott to submissions and subscriptions, for example.) I personally offered to help them, as an unpaid volunteer, to contact all the writers and artists who had creator-owned content, so they could secure permissions; they refused. I made it clear I would let them publish my material if they asked, honoring the contract they had signed. No big payment required, just a copy of the archive for my shelves. They refused.

It never got to the suit stage. There was serious discussion at the time the archive was published of getting together a class action suit. SFFWA got involved on behalf of several writers who were members (including me), and they were interested in seeing the issue go to court. There were dozens of writers and artists potentially impacted by all this. (Even if it was only 1 article, story, or piece of art per issue, the archive contained 250 issues.) WotC eventually settled with SFFWA to head off any coordinated action involving the organization. They also had to settle with some individuals who had very clear contracts saying reprints of their material were not allowed. Overall, it damaged the company's reputation in creative circles, too. All of that was avoidable.

 

[RichGreen]

Sorry. I probably should have mentioned this in the first post.

I had creator-copyrighted material used in the archive without my permission and had a front row seat on the whole mess. As a former TSR employee who still knew a fair number of people out in Renton, I contacted WotC at the management level before the archive was released and alerted them to the backlash developing in publishing circles. (They were publishing Amazing Stories at the time, and there was a lot of talk about a boycott to submissions and subscriptions, for example.) I personally offered to help them, as an unpaid volunteer, to contact all the writers and artists who had creator-owned content, so they could secure permissions; they refused. I made it clear I would let them publish my material if they asked, honoring the contract they had signed. No big payment required, just a copy of the archive for my shelves. They refused.

It never got to the suit stage. There was serious discussion at the time the archive was published of getting together a class action suit. SFFWA got involved on behalf of several writers who were members (including me), and they were interested in seeing the issue go to court. There were dozens of writers and artists potentially impacted by all this. (Even if it was only 1 article, story, or piece of art per issue, the archive contained 250 issues.) WotC eventually settled with SFFWA to head off any coordinated action involving the organization. They also had to settle with some individuals who had very clear contracts saying reprints of their material were not allowed. Overall, it damaged the company's reputation in creative circles, too. All of that was avoidable.

Wow, thanks for filling us in on the background! I did wonder if you were the James Lowder who wrote some of my favourite FR novels...

 

[Jer]

Anything that contains mechanics can't be used if 4e isn't used. Seems 5$ for stuff I can't use is ridiculus.

Then don't buy it? There's plenty of other stuff out there to buy. That's the beauty of the PDF back catalog publishing model.

 

[Kramodlog]

Then don't buy it? There's plenty of other stuff out there to buy. That's the beauty of the PDF back catalog publishing model.

Saying I won't buy over priced useless stuff is exactly why I posted. I think people should do the same. Keep your money for cheaper and useful stuff.

I also would like to say that I won't buy stuff just because there is stuff out there to buy. That is ridiculus.

 

[amethal]

I already have Dungeon 155 to 158. I don't think I bought them (was it even possible to buy them?), I've never been a subscriber to DDI, and I certainly didn't pirate them - which makes me think that at one time they were freely available on the WotC website.

If so, I'm not too excited that WotC are now making it possible for people to buy something that they previously had made freely available.

However, I'd quite like to get a complete Scales of War adventure path, so I'd consider buying later issues - but probably not at $5 a time.

 

[delericho]

I already have Dungeon 155 to 158. I don't think I bought them (was it even possible to buy them?), I've never been a subscriber to DDI, and I certainly didn't pirate them - which makes me think that at one time they were freely available on the WotC website.

They were available as recently as Tuesday - I got them via the link that Jan van Leyden posted up-thread. However, they do seem to have changed the links on the site from "Download Now" to "Subscribe to DDI", effectively removing them from free circulation. (Hence my need to edit - the original version of this post contained links to no-longer-free files. Oops.)

 

[jodyjohnson]

Paizo.com has the old PDFs on sale for 4.95 and dndclassics.com has them at 4.99. If I really want a specific issue that seems fine.

Are the 72 Dragon issues Paizo has up in the store not actually available? (Dragon 274 through 345)

Dungeon has more gaps but Dungeon 82 through 139 (missing 83, 91, and 138) is a big chunk of the run.

Note that many of the earlier Dragon issues note that non-permissioned content was removed. Prime offender being Phil and Dixie.

I agree that this is the largest issue with putting the full back catalogue up for sale. The second being the mixed ownership between WotC and Paizo.