This issue is getting too funny now. Look at it this way: Will Paizo lose customers if they go mith more "mature" content? The answer, at least from this thread and their responses in the magazine to letters etc seems to be yes, they will. Now then, conversely: Will Paizo lose customers if it shows less skin and has no swaer words in it? After all it is a gaming magazine, so is anyone out there right now only buying the issues that have swearing and scantily clad women and or men on the cover? Maybe so. Now, does Paizo stand to lose more customers by being more "mature" or more general audience? I honestly think they stand to lose more by trying to pander to the "mature" audience.
[Dragon] Lord, the cheese...
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Janos Antero
First Post
The point they're trying to make in regards to America though is moderately valid. The difference in sexual attitudes is dramatic between the USA and Europe, and what offends individuals here or at least seems in bad taste, isn't elsewhere. (I seem to remember opening with that point too...)
Just as some people in the USA want to steer our country toward a removal of sex from most situations for the sake of professionalism, other places in the world have achieved professionalism inspite of pornography as well.
Japan is a prime case in point, with standards of pornography that shock most people here. Yet they are undoubtably very professional in a business setting, and have come to be one of the modern standards of business conduct. Japan also has very few problems with sex and violence, despite similiar levels of exposure.
One point that bears a great deal of thinking is that the connection between sex/violence and dark behavior is worst in the countries that have the most issues with pornogaphy. In the USA, the statistical correlation is stronger than anywhere else, and for the most part, the more liberal the sexual tendencies of the nation in regards to the media, the more the strength of relationship decreases. In Japan the issue is almost null and void, with the correlation being insignificant.
Maybe it's time we stop teaching our kids to fear, repress, or hide sex. Maybe it's time to stop thinking sex is cheap, and must be kept private, that sex is something we CAN seperate our everyday lives from. Food for thought.
Just as some people in the USA want to steer our country toward a removal of sex from most situations for the sake of professionalism, other places in the world have achieved professionalism inspite of pornography as well.
Japan is a prime case in point, with standards of pornography that shock most people here. Yet they are undoubtably very professional in a business setting, and have come to be one of the modern standards of business conduct. Japan also has very few problems with sex and violence, despite similiar levels of exposure.
One point that bears a great deal of thinking is that the connection between sex/violence and dark behavior is worst in the countries that have the most issues with pornogaphy. In the USA, the statistical correlation is stronger than anywhere else, and for the most part, the more liberal the sexual tendencies of the nation in regards to the media, the more the strength of relationship decreases. In Japan the issue is almost null and void, with the correlation being insignificant.
Maybe it's time we stop teaching our kids to fear, repress, or hide sex. Maybe it's time to stop thinking sex is cheap, and must be kept private, that sex is something we CAN seperate our everyday lives from. Food for thought.
Bran Blackbyrd
Explorer
Re: Just wanted to point out
I haven't had the chance to pick up a copy yet. Sounds good though. I've heard good things about this issue, despite the furor in this thread. I plan to spend most of my time looking at the insides of the magazine.
NOTE: I took the signatures off all of my posts on this page. I didn't mean to leave them in there. They take up so much room, and I'm not vain enough to think people want to read it that badly. Hehe.
buzz said:
I haven't had the chance to pick up a copy yet. Sounds good though. I've heard good things about this issue, despite the furor in this thread. I plan to spend most of my time looking at the insides of the magazine.
NOTE: I took the signatures off all of my posts on this page. I didn't mean to leave them in there. They take up so much room, and I'm not vain enough to think people want to read it that badly. Hehe.
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WizarDru
Adventurer
Re: Just wanted to point out
My players may not agree. One of them got the issue just before I did, and posted to our mailing list that it had elemental demons, unfortunately just in time for use on their current adventure on the elemental plane of fire.
Oh, and Bran, technically the phrase is "Eat your cake and have it, too." I make that mistake a good deal, myself. The idea being that you want to still have your cake after you've enjoyed it's frosted doughy goodness. Which, unless you're Stictch, is kinda hard. Eww.
buzz said:
My players may not agree. One of them got the issue just before I did, and posted to our mailing list that it had elemental demons, unfortunately just in time for use on their current adventure on the elemental plane of fire.
Oh, and Bran, technically the phrase is "Eat your cake and have it, too." I make that mistake a good deal, myself. The idea being that you want to still have your cake after you've enjoyed it's frosted doughy goodness. Which, unless you're Stictch, is kinda hard. Eww.
Bran Blackbyrd
Explorer
Re: Re: Just wanted to point out
Hehe. No evil grin icon on these boards.
And you know I can recall having heard that before, but habit takes over and you go on autopilot.
I make a point of chewing my cake thoroughly and then spitting it into a mason jar where I can keep it on a shelf. I've beaten the system I tell you!!!
Ok, not really.
ACCK! Take off all sig, for great justice.
WizarDru said:
My players may not agree. One of them got the issue just before I did, and posted to our mailing list that it had elemental demons, unfortunately just in time for use on their current adventure on the elemental plane of fire.
Hehe. No evil grin icon on these boards.
And you know I can recall having heard that before, but habit takes over and you go on autopilot.
I make a point of chewing my cake thoroughly and then spitting it into a mason jar where I can keep it on a shelf. I've beaten the system I tell you!!!
Ok, not really.
ACCK! Take off all sig, for great justice.
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Psion
Adventurer
In some ways yes and in some ways no. Most Americans who are aware of it find Hentei and schoolgirl panty porn offensive, but OTOH Playboy as it is published in America is considered hardcore in Japan as showing pubic hair is rather more taboo.
The fundamental point here is that different cultures have different values. That does not mean those values should be ignored as invalid because we recognize how subjective they are.
Celebrim said:
I think you're talking to me - I meant that American culture seems unusual in that a common view seems to be that quite hard-core pornography is ok (not the view in Saudi Arabia), in its place (eg not accessible to minors), but milder titillation is not ok. My wife is from the USA and has this view, which I have trouble understanding*. In the UK it would be something of a minority view, hence 'page 3' is still around.
I don't want to be trollish, hence keeping post brief.
*I can understand view that pornography is demeaning to women and bad. I have trouble understanding the view that pornography is ok, but titillation (scantily clad succubi, say) isn't.
Psion said:
America has lots of places where you can buy alcohol, but also a common view in many parts that alcohol is inherently sinful. This generally is not true at all in Europe - perhaps to an extent in Scotland & Ireland, but much less so than in the US. US bar culture is very different from English pub culture, I've noticed (being from Northern Ireland myself, my home culture is a bit more akin to the USA).
Likewise the USA is the only western country I know of where some places have laws banning depiction of female nipples in areas accessible to under-18s. I remember a discussion of this in the 'Savage Sword of Conan' Marvel comic a while ago, the editor was explaining why nude/topless pictures were now blacked out in the comic, since otherwise they wouldn't be allowed to sell it through many outlets.
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