[Dragon] Lord, the cheese...

[buzz]

We have far too many hang-ups on sexuality in our culture.

I really don't consider this an issue of "sexuality." I have no objection to sexual themes appearing in the content of the magazine or the cover art. I just don't like juvenile cheese.

Issues 302, 296, 288, and 280 are examples of the kind of women I like to see on the cover. 282 (the Foglio april Fool's issue) is also an example of "sexulaity" done in a fun and entertaining way. Even if they wanted to feature a Frazetta naked-barbarian-woman on the cover, that would be cool with me, 'cause Frazetta has talent.

Thankfully, as I look back through my collection, 3e-era Dragon covers have only rarely degenerated into cheese. I can only hope Paizo will continue the trend.

 

[Celebrim]

Janos Antero: I can safely say that you have missed my point entirely.

I would assume you mean this one:

http://www.saradouglass.com/hadescovUSA.html

Now, you may note that that coverwork is done by Luis Royo - one of the leading fantasy artists today.

I don't think there is abit of comparison between the two.

 

[Angelsboi]

Rant

Mob speaks my ass. Its no different.

I asked a straight friend about this and he agreed with you. Then i said, "Steve, you went to Backstreet* with me and Randy and you left because guys kept hitting on you. Right?"

He said yeah. I then proceeded: "Well you were there because of the straight girls right?"

"Yeah"

"So are you saying we should just deal with it or leave, like you did?"

He then stopped to see what i was saying is right. Yeah, the majority may be straight gamers. BUT we gay gamers and girl gamers exist. You say you are the majority therefore we get nothing. Well what if you went to a gay club where all the guys were hitting on you. You were a minority. Would you stay and take it or leave?

Im not about to leave my hobby over art, nor am i about to not say its discriminatory either.

/Rant

 

[Psion]

Olive said:[/i]
Sagan - you cancelled a magazine subscription over 2 spells and a discussion of different levels of gaming? your loss...

A loss I can only thank -- and in fact applaud -- him for suffering. Those two spells offended me, too. Alas, I am too entrenched, personally, to cancel my subscriptions.

And while I still think they are testing the waters a little, I do think they have toned down a bit. In last Dungeon, they had a rather snottily worded response to what appears to be one of the snottier letters they could have chose on the subject, but in essence they said that there was enough of an uproar by readers that they have decided to tone it down.

I'm not offended by this current cover, though I think they could do better.

 

[Olive]

Olive- you and I went around this mulberry bush before.

true true, fair enough. sorry. lets agree to disagree. no hard feelings?

 

[Sagan Darkside]

true true, fair enough. sorry. lets agree to disagree. no hard feelings?

None at all.

SD

 

[John Crichton]

Sagan - you cancelled a magazine subscription over 2 spells and a discussion of different levels of gaming? your loss...

I've just looked through Dragon #300, and I can't imagine you cancelled it over undead templates, flesheating halflings, lower plane dragons or magic items for hags.

Ya know what's funny? I don't even remember what was in that section. And I'm pretty sure I didn't even read the offending spells. I guess I just figured my games were dark enough as it is. Didn't need any more vile-ocity.

Sagan- Do you peek at the latest Dragon if you see a copy sitting around (in the store, at a friend's, etc.) and consider buying it on an individual issue basis?

 

[Olive]

I'm not offended by this current cover, though I think they could do better.

certainly no arguement here! it's a stupid cover. the content sounds ok tho.

 

[Psion]

Now, you may note that that coverwork is done by Luis Royo - one of the leading fantasy artists today

It's worth noting that Royo has quite a few nude fantasy pics in his portfolio. I do own some books of his artwork. Yes, I generally disdain nude artwork, but Royo is good and at least, unlike some popular authors I could name, his characters don't look like pin-up models stuck in front of fantasy backdrops.

But the point is this: just because I own some such artwork does not mean that I want such artwork in my gaming books. Gaming books are very often used at the gaming table, which may have a wide variety of tastes and tolerances, and I am at very ill ease passing around a book with gratiutous artwork.

If I enjoy a Royo book or some mysogonistic fantasy novel with depraved acts in it, then the only comfort zones I have to worry about are my own. If I am at the gaming table, I have to be more sensitive to the sensibilities of everyone at the table. I do not think the before alluded to standard of "there are brazen fantasy novels out there" really amounts to a hill of beans, because reading fantasy novels is not typically a shared environment.

 

[Sagan Darkside]

Sagan- Do you peek at the latest Dragon if you see a copy sitting around (in the store, at a friend's, etc.) and consider buying it on an individual issue basis?

I read the summaries here, but I don't touch the magazine.*

At first it was my intention to buy them individually if I found them suitable, but with the attitude of the people putting out the magazine- giving them any of my money felt wrong.

It is going to be hard not picking up the aSoIaF issue, but if that is the worst of my problems.. then I am doing ok.

SD

*I may have bought one after cancelling my subscription, but I would have to look at the pile.