Dragon Power

[Trainz@work]

So, what non-USA country are you from?

Oh, but I am not in a non-USA country, au contraire.

I'm from Canada.

SHAMELESS PLUG:

If any of you guys want to go get my mapping software, go to http://www.geocities.com/trainz_ca/ID

 

[kreynolds]

I'm from Canada.

Well, it sure ain't the USA!

Nice mapper, by the way.

 

[Lord Ben]

So a Dragon gets -20 on his grapple if using his bite for snatch and his limbs for other things? Yikes.

Is it the same as a dire bear? Do they get -20 if they do claw, claw bite?

Is that on the initial check too, or just the following checks after the initial one?

 

[mmu1]

It applies to any grapple check that leaves the creature with the ability to make attacks on someone else besides the person grappled.

It might sound drastic (-20!!!), but it's necessary to keep very large creatures from grabbing three or four characters, and squeezing until they die. Especially since large critters capable of making grapples with multiple limbs usually don't suffer from any iterative penalties...

 

[Endur]

Grappling

Also, this Dragon was not big enough to use the snatch feat (i.e. improved grab).

In order to use the snatch feat, the Dragon has to be three sizes larger for its bite or four sizes larger for its claw.

So a Dragon has to be Gargantuan size (CR 20 for a Blue Dragon) to snatch a medium size creature with its bite. A Blue Dragon would have to be EPIC level to snatch a medium size creature with its claw.

Now, the Dragon could still make a regular grapple attempt with its claw or mouth, but not a snatch.

Tom

 

[James McMurray]

In order to use the snatch feat, the Dragon has to be three sizes larger for its bite or four sizes larger for its claw.

Not quite. From the SRD:

Snatch: A dragon that hits with a claw or bite attack attempts to start a grapple as though it had the improved grab special attack. If the dragon gets a hold with a claw on a creature four or more sizes smaller, it squeezes each round for automatic claw damage. If it gets a hold with its bite on a creature three or more sizes smaller, it automatically deals bite damage each round, or if it does not move and takes no other action in combat, it deals double bite damage to the snatched creature. A snatched creature gets no saving throw against the dragon’s breath weapon. The dragon can drop a creature it has snatched as a free action or use a standard action to fling it aside. A flung creature travels 10 feet, and takes 1d6 points of damage, per age category of the dragon. If the dragon flings it while flying, the creature suffers this amount or falling damage, whichever is greater.

As per the feat's description, a dragon with snatch can always attempt to start a grapple with a claw or bite attack. If the poor creature it grabs happens to be a lot smaller, the dragon gets do hurt it without even needing to roll grapple checks.

 

[Endur]

my mistake

my mistake. Thanks for pointing out that snatch will still let the Dragon grapple. The size differential just lets it do automatic damage.

 

[Brekki]

On Sean's site (the link in a post way above) it says that monsters with improved grab don't loose there dex and still threaten area's, even when they don't take a -20.

Can anyone find rules to support this, because I think it's wrong.

 

[Trainz]

On Sean's site (the link in a post way above) it says that monsters with improved grab don't loose there dex and still threaten area's, even when they don't take a -20.

Can anyone find rules to support this, because I think it's wrong.

What it actually says is:" Monsters with improved grab pull the target into their space instead of moving into the target's space. The mosters are not considered grappled, so they don't lose their Dex bonus, still threaten an area, and can still make other attacks in the round normally."

It doesn't actually says that the monster doesn't suffer the -20 penalty.

I sent an email to him, inviting him to come read this thread, and adjust his grappling page... clarify it a bit if he wants to.

 

[Brekki]

It doesn't say they don't take -20, but the only way to not be grappled yourself is to take -20.