D&D General Dragon Turtles

[Parmandur]

@FR1971 you should complain about Spelljammer not getting enough attention next.

 

[Zaukrie]

I was thinking they should complain about demons and devils being unable to even hit each other with their non-magic attacks.....or just about how weak their leaders are in general.

But I'll take Spelljammer ....

 

[Sword of Spirit]

I'm not sure if that art is a dragon turtle or some sort of primordial dragon, but I'm leaning slightly towards the latter.

 

[Parmandur]

I'm not sure if that art is a dragon turtle or some sort of primordial dragon, but I'm leaning slightly towards the latter.

No, it's a Dragon Turle Great Wyrm from the new book.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

I'm not sure if that art is a dragon turtle or some sort of primordial dragon, but I'm leaning slightly towards the latter.

They have already called it a dragon turtle great wyrm. The are providing full age categories for dragon turtles in the new book, the MM version is an Adult dragon turtle

 

[FR1971]

I like the improvement but still think they should have been at the top of the pyramid. The artwork is awesome, they definitely look immense and primordial, oozing natural elemental forces.

 

[Casimir Liber]

OD&D: 11 to 13 HD, 1 attack, a nasty 3/day cone of steam for its current hit points in damage (that's 11d6 to 13d6), in a day when players used d6 for hit points, and capsize. So, pretty epic because it easily could wipe your party with one attack.

Basic D&D: 30 HD (upgrade!), now has 3 physical attacks including a super nasty bite that can 1-shot PCs, super big cone of steam like before, just up to 30d6!! Noted to be one of the most powerful monsters in the game, rivaled only by the Kraken.

AD&D 1&2E: 12 to 14 HD (back to just being awesome), big but not 1-shot physical attacks, 20d6 breath weapon cloud(!) of 60x40x40' usable 3/day and edition change no longer dependent on current HP. Intelligence above average at 11-12. So, still respectable because of that awesome breath weapon which could wipe out a party, easy.

3rd: 12HD, breath weapon nerfed to 12d6 in a day when PC hit points go up big time. We do have options to advance it to a 36HD creature but by default, it's not that scary.

4th: 13HD, breath weapon down to 6d6. INT drops to average 10. Awwww. What is happening to our beloved king of the deep?

5E: 22HD (CR17), breath weapon to 15d6 and a limited cone, now has turtle tail power. Overall, though, much like many poor creatures in the MM, just a big bag of hit points and a shadow of its former party-wiping scary self. The Kraken, once compared as its equal? Now a CR22, 27 Hit Die, Legendary creature with Lair effects.

Conclusion: it's been nerfed from the early days when it could wipe your party with its breath weapon and was described as the leviathan of the deep, only rivaled by a handful of denizens, with a damn warning for the DM how dangerous it was!

Tagging @Echohawk ....(hint hint someone's done half the job of a potential Monster ENCyclopedia entry. PS: if you need any help with these.....

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

@FR1971 you should complain about Spelljammer not getting enough attention next.

Looks like this post (thankfully) didn't age well, either, with the most recent UA, at least.

 

[FR1971]

OD&D: 11 to 13 HD, 1 attack, a nasty 3/day cone of steam for its current hit points in damage (that's 11d6 to 13d6), in a day when players used d6 for hit points, and capsize. So, pretty epic because it easily could wipe your party with one attack.

Basic D&D: 30 HD (upgrade!), now has 3 physical attacks including a super nasty bite that can 1-shot PCs, super big cone of steam like before, just up to 30d6!! Noted to be one of the most powerful monsters in the game, rivaled only by the Kraken.

AD&D 1&2E: 12 to 14 HD (back to just being awesome), big but not 1-shot physical attacks, 20d6 breath weapon cloud(!) of 60x40x40' usable 3/day and edition change no longer dependent on current HP. Intelligence above average at 11-12. So, still respectable because of that awesome breath weapon which could wipe out a party, easy.

3rd: 12HD, breath weapon nerfed to 12d6 in a day when PC hit points go up big time. We do have options to advance it to a 36HD creature but by default, it's not that scary.

4th: 13HD, breath weapon down to 6d6. INT drops to average 10. Awwww. What is happening to our beloved king of the deep?

5E: 22HD (CR17), breath weapon to 15d6 and a limited cone, now has turtle tail power. Overall, though, much like many poor creatures in the MM, just a big bag of hit points and a shadow of its former party-wiping scary self. The Kraken, once compared as its equal? Now a CR22, 27 Hit Die, Legendary creature with Lair effects.

Conclusion: it's been nerfed from the early days when it could wipe your party with its breath weapon and was described as the leviathan of the deep, only rivaled by a handful of denizens, with a damn warning for the DM how dangerous it was!

I am curious in you think the Ancient Dragon Turtle in Fizban's Treasury of Dragons is a positive in restoring him to his prior glory among monsters? Personally, I still think relative to the other Dragons and high end monsters it is still a shadow of what it was in Basic D&D.

​

 

[egomann]

Hey everyone, what do you think would be the best way, other than DM Fiat, to give a flying speed to a dragon turtle? I am trying to design an encounter on the docks of a city where a Priest of Umberlee brings up an enslaved Dragon Turtle. The problem is that all of the players have flight one way or another (this is a high powered game) and once they are outside of the BW range, there is no threat.