Dragonborn - will you ban them?

[Jhaelen]

I'll ban whatever I feel like banning at the time when I start playing 4E - if I play 4E.

This can mean banning none of them, all of them, or something inbetween.

I'll also make sure to ask my potential players what they'd be interested in before I ban anything.

 

[am181d]

I'm torn on this. Obviously I'll be waiting till the books actually come out and I get a chance to fully digest everything before I make a firm decision, but my first (and second and third) reaction is that dragon-men as PCs don't fit the kind of fantasy games that I run.

And I'm not a traditionalist by any stretch. I'm a big fan of Eberron's Warforged, Shifters, and Changelings. I like animalfolk (not *furries*) for their Narnia pedigree. I like faeries and ogres and reinterpreting the races with weird new backgrounds. (Halflings as evil little children that never grow up being one of my favorites.)

But massive competing civilizations of dragon-men doesn't work for me. Maybe I'll allow them as rare survivors of some ancient race. Or strange visitors from distant lands.

But I can't see myself running them out of the box.

 

[Counterspin]

I thought it was self-evident, sorry. The one on the right.

Dragonball z - 1984, Draconians - 1984 Given lag in publishing time, it would be impossible for one to be an influence on the other. And I can't even begin to understand a worldview that holds that Dragonball Z is a larger influence on D&D than the Dragons of... novels.

 

[TwinBahamut]

Too many sources to list, but take Dragonball Z as a starter:

Oh please... If you are going to take an example from videogames and anime, at least use one that is applicable. There are a few humanoid dragon-people in the Dragonball universe, but you picked the wrong alien. Calling King Cold a humanoid dragon is like calling a Klingon a humanoid armadillo. It doesn't make any sense beyond the sketchiest of similarities.

I guess I will be nice and post a link to real anime-influenced videogame dragonman. Here. Grey is a pretty cool guy, if you ask me. To be specific though, he is a human cursed to have a dragon's appearance because he killed too many dragons, but he breathes fire, ice, and lightning, so he easily qualifies.

But, they really arn't that common, and individual examples don't prove a trend, especially with solid counter-examples like the Dragonalnce Draconians.

 

[TwinBahamut]

Dragonball z - 1984, Draconians - 1984 Given lag in publishing time, it would be impossible for one to be an influence on the other. And I can't even begin to understand a worldview that holds that Dragonball Z is a larger influence on D&D than the Dragons of... novels.

Actually, the Dragonball manga got started in 1985 according to my sources, and the particular species (frieza and King Cold's race) that is being referred to wasn't published for several years, until 1988 or so. The actual humanoid dragons of Dragonball GT were not seen until 1996-97, and were not seen in the US until about 2003-2004.

 

[Counterspin]

Actually, the Dragonball manga got started in 1985 according to my sources, and the particular species (frieza and King Cold's race) that is being referred to wasn't published for several years, until 1988 or so. The actual humanoid dragons of Dragonball GT were not seen until 1996-97, and were not seen in the US until about 2003-2004.

84 is the date given in Wikipedia for the very earliest Dragonball thing I could find. I'd rather give the other side the benefit of the doubt, and I am admittedly ignorant about the manga/anime in question.

 

[TwinBahamut]

Aren't Laguz essentially the same as D&D's shifters?

I wish Shifters were more like Laguz... Laguz are really a lot more like pure Lycathropes, except they have animal features in their human form, do not have a hybrid form, and are a set of pure-breeding species rather than a cursed creature. Also, their transformed forms tend to be larger and more powerful than a normal creature, and most of them can't remain in their transformed state permanently. So, I guess you can say they are shifters who turn fully into an animal, rather than just gain a few animalistic features. Am I contradicting myself here? Either way, they are an interesting way to handle the concept, and they have a lot of interesting flavor with regards to their relation to normal humans.

I also like the similar, yet different Hanju from the anime The Twelve Kingdoms. Sooner or later I will write up a D&D version that combines the two races...

 

[Wormwood]

What the hell is this? We get gnomes totally axed off and orcs/half-orcs are in the air but we get friggin' Lizardmen and evil sorcerers?
When did D&D turn into a bloody Conan the Barbarian novel?

You win the thread, sir.

 

[Wormwood]

I thought it was self-evident, sorry. The one on the right.

Oh God . . . you were being serious.

 

[NaturalZero]

I guess I will be nice and post a link to real anime-influenced videogame dragonman.

Actually, the first guy i thought of when i heard someone mention dragon-people in video games was Garland from BoF3:

Of course, the fact that draconians pre-date BoF3 by more than a decade pretty much invalidates any theory that DnD stole from it.