Dragonstar?

[mcrow]

Neo: my post was more directed @ Cergorach not @ you. sorry about not pointing that out. I also did not mean to imply that anyone here said that 1000 books would save DS, it was more of generic statement.

 

[KaosDevice]

I am an RPGA member, but don't I have to actually have an event going on to be able to order mods? I'm not that familiar with the DM side of the world.

I'll check out the DSD20 group as well.

 

[Bront]

I think the bigest thing that hurt DS was that it was never converted to 3.5 officially. There were a few mechanics that might have helped it then. They probably could have incorperated a few D20 modern mechnics too with firearms and such.

I thought it was one of the better settings out there for D20. Definately one of the more origional.

 

[kenobi65]

I am an RPGA member, but don't I have to actually have an event going on to be able to order mods? I'm not that familiar with the DM side of the world.

Yes, though even a home game counts as an "event", for the RPGA's purposes. I run one- or two-module home-play events for my home group all the time. (Also, to order modules, you need to have passed the RPGA's Herald GM test.)

The bigger issue is that, when you order an RPGA module to run, the RPGA expect that you're actually going to run it, in accordance with the RPGA rules, and report the fact that you've run it. (The RPGA relies on reported play to justify their continued existance, since they're now fundamentally a marketing expense for WotC.) If you order modules without reporting actual play of them, the RPGA eventually shuts down your ability to order modules.

I point all this out because I've run into more than a few players who would really like to order RPGA modules, for reading material, or for idea fodder for their homebrew games...and the RPGA doesn't work that way.

 

[kenobi65]

Lets face it anyone who makes a book has no garuntee that they will sell even a single copy let alone a thousand.. putting any book out is a risk, so the likelihood of selling almost a thousand to a similar number of people who still remain interested and active on the setting despite a total void as far as potential future support for the game goes... HAS to matter.

Well, though you don't seem to agree, FFG explicitly stated that low sales were part of the reason they discontinued the line in the first place. As a rule, game companies don't discontinue games that are selling well enough to generate a profit...

And, what I'm saying is that even if every one of the 1000 members of your list were guaranteed customers for any new DS book, that may not be enough. Yes, 1000 copies sold is better than 0, certainly; but, if you (as a publisher) know you need to sell 5000 copies (just pulling a number out of the air) to break even, then not printing the book at all is a smarter business decision than selling 1000 copies at a loss.

 

[TerraDave]

A friend of mine and I have been looking at doing something with this, and it makes me wonder if it came out a little to early, not only in terms of 3.5, but more generally: it seemed like a lot of people got it, said "cool" and then put it back on the shelf and resumed their more standard campaigns. They just weren't ready for the switch.

In terms of support though, in all honesty, we probably will only be interested in the first couple of books or the first one...but that is always a problem with these things.

And in terms of FFG and their strategy, it seems like they want to sit on it until the time is right for a new edition (or derivative products), which makes perfect sense.

 

[Neo]

Well, though you don't seem to agree, FFG explicitly stated that low sales were part of the reason they discontinued the line in the first place. As a rule, game companies don't discontinue games that are selling well enough to generate a profit...

Its not that I dont believe it it is just as I said it doesnt quite ring true, as a fan and supporter of the game when that announcement came more people than ever were expressing an interest in the game.. and the point I was trying to make is that sales usually equate to sufficient interest..and as the interest hadn't floundered I dont see how the sales would have.. so lack sales being the reason true or not just never made sense to me.

And, what I'm saying is that even if every one of the 1000 members of your list were guaranteed customers for any new DS book, that may not be enough. Yes, 1000 copies sold is better than 0, certainly; but, if you (as a publisher) know you need to sell 5000 copies (just pulling a number out of the air) to break even, then not printing the book at all is a smarter business decision than selling 1000 copies at a loss.

I think you missed the point I was making.. sure a publisher may know they need 5000 units to be sold to break even, but none of them can garuntee sales (with the exception of pre-orders which are a good way of guaging how large a print run should be) of that amount.. so using your logic if a publisher knew they needed to sell 5000 and couldnt garuntee that amount they would not release a book... if that were the case no book would be released from anyone. The best anyone can do is guage the market and interest and guestimate likely sales (via market studies, and niche reasearch etc..), which is why most companies release a single book first in order to guage interest and sales and if sufficient interest and market exists they produce further books. But with DS it went past that stage and a bunch of books were released for it..but even when the line was cancelled there was still seemingly more interest in the line than thier had ever been and that is what I mean when I say it just didnt make sense that with that taken into consideration low sales would be the reason (which is not to say that wasnt the reason..it just didnt seem like it).

 

[Neo]

And in terms of FFG and their strategy, it seems like they want to sit on it until the time is right for a new edition (or derivative products), which makes perfect sense.

That is pretty much what I stated in an earlier post too, its annoying though as I hate waits and i'd hate to see all the existing interest in the game vanish because so long a time went between editions.. though I am confident that when they DO do something with it it will be excellant.

 

[kenobi65]

I think you missed the point I was making.. sure a publisher may know they need 5000 units to be sold to break even, but none of them can garuntee sales (with the exception of pre-orders which are a good way of guaging how large a print run should be) of that amount.. so using your logic if a publisher knew they needed to sell 5000 and couldnt garuntee that amount they would not release a book... if that were the case no book would be released from anyone.

The reason that they *do* publish books is that they make guesses...educated guesses, in many cases, but guesses all the same. If the guesses are low, then they end up in second printings, etc. If the guesses are high, then retailers, distributors, and the publisher all get stuck with unsold copies. I think you can figure out why FFG put that "Essential" pack on sale at a big discount just before they cancelled the line -- they were sitting on a bunch of unsold stock of books that were a year or two old, from an edition that the SRD no longer supported.

But with DS it went past that stage and a bunch of books were released for it..but even when the line was cancelled there was still seemingly more interest in the line than thier had ever been and that is what I mean when I say it just didnt make sense that with that taken into consideration low sales would be the reason (which is not to say that wasnt the reason..it just didnt seem like it).

Despite what you sense as "seemingly more interest", I think it's likely that the books beyond the Starfarer's Handbook didn't sell as well as FFG had wanted. You say that your group continued to / continues to have new people interested in DS...but it's entirely possible that those new players were being counterweighted (or more than counterweighted) by players who bought the first book or two, and lost interest.

Unless FFG ever decides to publicly release their sales data (not bloody likely), I don't think we'll ever know for sure.

 

[Ranger REG]

So... I don't see someone licensing the DS property. On the otherhand, if someone bought the property outright, it might be more worthwile, only one deal and all the money exchanges hands only once. The problem is, what's a setting like DS worth? And who would be willing to pay that amount (and would FFG be willing to let it go for that amount?). I personally don't think it's worth that much, as FFG devalued the products by cutting their book price by more then 60% (books that sold for $106 => $40), how's a company to do better then that deal and not have fans falling over themselves to yell "leech!" (the price o rpg books is a hotly discussed subject just about everywhere).

Fine. Then I challenge any publisher that can do a Dragonstar-inspired RPG line, even one with d20 Modern/Urban Arcana/d20 Future material.

I will support a product that is just like Dragonstar but without the label.