Dread necromancer gish build

[keeper216]

So I have developed a gish and I want everyones opinion. I warn you this build has some controversial things in it.

Race: Naenhoon Illumian

Class: Dread Necromancer 8/ Abjurant Champion 4/ Incantatrix 8

At 1st level take two flaws: pathetic (-2 to an attribute, con), meager fortitude (-3 fort)

1st: Extend spell, Magical Training, Versatile Spellcasting

3rd: Smiting Spell

6th: Combat casting

9th: Persistent Spell

12th: Iron Will

13th: Bonus feat Quicken spell

15th: Life sense

18th: Rapid metamagic

At third level become a necropolitan with a dread necromancer of 8 level with fell energy and casts consecrate on a altar. This give me 1d12+8 hp/hd plus +4 strength and dexterity. The trick would be finding a dread necromancer with fell energy and that can cast consecrate but as a Illumian i can ask around the gravewisper cabals (which I will belong to one) so that shouldn't be that much of a probably.

Persist wrathstrike. Research mage armor into a abjurant spell instead of a conjuration spell. With shield and the now abjurant spell mage armor equals a 16 AC bonus. This build won't wear armor. Wrathstrike gives me so that I don't need a high BAB. With an item to gives me more turning/rebukes I can persist haste.

I don't know what the normal feat at level 18 will be. Might go Fell animate or Fell energy. Just to pump up my undead minions. Which I won't have many, mostly just what is at the beginning of the dungeon and if they are still alive by the end I will order them to bury themselves in the ground until farther notice. This character will be lawful neutral. This character will be wielding a Greatsword.

Those who hate the rule compendium won't approve of this build because of the magical training versatile spellcaster combo. Some will hate on Incantatrix but don't see how this class can even be broken in any combo. Just to be sure its the Incantatrix from magic of Faerun that people have a problem with right?

 

[Morrus]

No idea what a gish is, but I've moved this to the character builds forum for you.

 

[keeper216]

A gish is one who uses magic and melee. Duskblade, warmage, and the like

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Morris is teasing you, because there is argument about the appropriate use of the word "Gish".

This build appears powerful, although really fragile before you go Necropolitan with the poor Fort saves. I'm not sure if you have a question in here though, what do you need input on?

This is definitely the sort of build you'd need to approve by a DM, in part because it's strong, in part because it's complicated, in part becasue it might not fit well with the rest of your party (not every PC is cool with an undead buddy) and in large part because it requires some roleplay to pull off. If this character is going into a world without a necromancer to turn you into an undead, it's not going to go as you imagine.

 

[keeper216]

Well actually thats the point of him becoming undead. Roleplaying wise he is like paladin but is not bound by any codes but his own. He couldn't protect the weak because of him being sick all the time (I think of him like Raistlin from dragonlance health wise but more like Sturm personality wise) so his solution was to become an undead. He would be lawful good if not for his methods. He doesn't see the undead as evil nor does he see negative energy evil. Once an undead is intelligent in his eyes it is just like any other intelligent creature it can be good or evil based on there choices. So in his eyes a new born devil is not evil but corrupted by their upbringing.

EDIT: I am just curious on what you think about. General thoughts. I think its a really nice build and as long as you don't try to use incantatrix to break the game you should be fine.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

I think it could be a fun character to play, as long as the DM and everyone else is cool with it.

Incantrix exists to be brokenly overpowerful, lets not pretend there's a non-abusive use for the PrC.
Perhaps consider playing the character as a support to the rest of the class? You're an incredible caster, make sure to buff the party & debuff enemies so you don't embarrass everyone else by soloing with your skills.

I don't know your campaign world, but I'm assuming in most settings you won't be perceived as Paladin-like. The phrase "He would be lawful good if not for his methods." is a contradiction, perhaps you could clarify what you mean. One's methods/actions/choices is what shapes a character in these games. This sounds to me like "I'd be lawful except for the one small detail of not following social expectations, and I'd be good except for the fact that I'm actively engaged in evil things."

Another thing to consider- These forums exist for brainstorming and imagining a sweet character build, and we all think of what that level 20 epic hero will be capable of doing. In reality, most games start at low levels and take a long time to grow, and often they never arrive at the higher levels. You know you and your other players, realistically what levels with this character play at? If you die at level 2 with those low Fort saves, you'll never achieve level 20 awesomeness.

So, what level and what world will this character start in?

You've got a powerful Undead character. Have fun with it, make it fun for everyone else.

 

[keeper216]

When I say he would be lawful good if not for his methods I mean the good part. He uses evil means to do good things. While that might corrupt him thats part of fun. Also in his mind undead are not evil. When I say like a paladin I mean the zealousness of a paladin. If the party hears of a bandit attack on a village he will go charging off to go protect them and similar things like that. We would be starting at level 3. I realize that we probably won't hit 20. Which doesn't bother me because what I want is level 12 and below. 13-20 is just a filler class to 20 that gets me a lot of metamagic feats that only costs me one feat. I know how broken Incantrix can be but I don't want to break the game. I would scale this class to whatever the rest of the class is ie. not using wrathstrike but magic weapon or something similar. I like Incantrix because I can do just that, no matter how powerful the rest of the group is I can keep up or be slightly higher. Its a build that can be very flexible.

 

[gamerprinter]

And this is one of the reasons I like Pathfinder, the magus fits the concept of "gish" much better than any previous edition of D&D. Although there isn't a necromancer based one, you could easily create an archetype that does it. Another reason, I prefer PF is I hate prestige classes and don't ever want to use one. I don't miss 3x.

 

[keeper216]

Well there is nothing wrong with prestige classes just with people misusing them. I actually like prestige classes. It gives a sense of specialization and lore. Some prestige classes give abilities that you won't find any where else. I don't know how other groups do it but my group if you want a prestige you have to either hunt down someone to teach you or hunt down a book. Some times the prestige classes you can simply learn yourself if it seems reasonable. Like say you are a wizard and there is a fighter who specializes in archery in the group and you want to become a arcane archer. It's not so much of a jump to say the fighter teachs you archery. Then you simply combine your magic and the archery and then can simply become a arcane archer rather then tracking down a book or someone to teach you. In my group its not easy to get into a prestige class we make in difficult because we know how strong they are. Some times a group member will instead of hanging out at taverns during the rest days will go to libraries or use their time rolling gather info checks and sometimes even when they find the person they must do them a favor or if they find the book the realize that the last person to have it torn out an important page. All this makes it much more fun and feels more like an accomplishment.

 

[gamerprinter]

Which is my point about Pathfinder class archetypes. You can get the kind of specialization and lore you want with an archetype and yet remain a base 20 level class. Archetypes give you the unique flavor that prestige classes grant in 3x, without the over-powered aspects of prestige classes, nor the imbalance between one prestige class and another. This way the normal imbalance between martials and casters are not inflamed with greater disparaging power differences that a prestige class will grant an already powerful caster class. The basic imbalance between classes is still present, but the distance between the martial and caster is not increased, but remains the same when flavor of character being enhanced with an archetype versus a prestige class.

In Pathfinder, while prestige classes still exist, they've been nerfed somewhat to the point that most players don't choose to ever play a prestige class, unless its a flavor that really enhances their backstory concept. Many don't even multi-class, nor class dip anymore perferring to remain a single class character their entire adventuring career (I never saw that in 3x ever.) I've designed a few prestige classes for use in my published Pathfinder setting, the Kaidan setting of Japanese horror (PFRPG), however those prestige classes are adding distinct flavor and unique powers, however, the powers tend to be flavor enhancers, and not game changers. Still I find most players not even choosing those prestige classes, but remaining in one archetype and one PC class as a preference.