Mercule
Adventurer
Ewwww....
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Driders are opposite now: Discuss
- Thread starter Appleseeth
- Start date
The Little Raven
First Post
The Complete Elven Supremacist Handbook from 2e gave it as a curse placed by Corellon on the dark elves, so that the darkness in their heart would be visible for all to see.
Joshua Randall
Legend
Put me under another person who says "That makes much more sense". I noticed it on my read through of the MM, and found it quaint.
Simple. Drow society is a bit of a caste system. At the very top are priestesses. Below them is everyone else.
The drider is simply the rung beneath a priestess. It's the highest pinnacle one can reach if they aren't a female whom Lolth blesses with her divine power and presence.
Or if that doesn't work for you: Drider : Priestess :: Paladin : Cleric.
Simple. Drow society is a bit of a caste system. At the very top are priestesses. Below them is everyone else.
The drider is simply the rung beneath a priestess. It's the highest pinnacle one can reach if they aren't a female whom Lolth blesses with her divine power and presence.
Or if that doesn't work for you: Drider : Priestess :: Paladin : Cleric.
Gailbraithe
First Post
First of all, I like this change overall.
That said, there is a long history of the Gods cursing people with superpowers. An example would be vampirism: Cursed by God to be immortal, super-strong, nearly unkillable, and able to shapeshift. Some curse!
Some Greek legends attribute the transformation of Lamia from a normal human princess (hardly scary) into a massive terrifying beast that could only be killed by heroes of Hercules proportions to a curse from Hera.
This is, I think, the origin of the curse.
Also, it was always my understanding that Drider were savage and bestial, with the ferocious intelligence of the Drow turned into the simple bloodlustr and cunning of a beast. If we assume that the transformation of Drow into Drider comes with a loss of intelligence, ability, and perhaps even memory, then the nature of the curse becomes much more obvious.
That drider outcats would tend to form a sphere of dangerous creatures terrified of the drow but more than willing to kill intruders into drow areas also helps explain why Lloth would curse them in such a way.
So I think the previous version of the Drider makes sense. But the new version makes an equal amount of sense, and makes it much easier to incorporate Driders into Drow encounters.
That said, there is a long history of the Gods cursing people with superpowers. An example would be vampirism: Cursed by God to be immortal, super-strong, nearly unkillable, and able to shapeshift. Some curse!
Some Greek legends attribute the transformation of Lamia from a normal human princess (hardly scary) into a massive terrifying beast that could only be killed by heroes of Hercules proportions to a curse from Hera.
This is, I think, the origin of the curse.
Also, it was always my understanding that Drider were savage and bestial, with the ferocious intelligence of the Drow turned into the simple bloodlustr and cunning of a beast. If we assume that the transformation of Drow into Drider comes with a loss of intelligence, ability, and perhaps even memory, then the nature of the curse becomes much more obvious.
That drider outcats would tend to form a sphere of dangerous creatures terrified of the drow but more than willing to kill intruders into drow areas also helps explain why Lloth would curse them in such a way.
So I think the previous version of the Drider makes sense. But the new version makes an equal amount of sense, and makes it much easier to incorporate Driders into Drow encounters.
In previous editions, turning a Drow into a Drider made them a "mindless" abomination. You no longer were the same person anymore, because your mind was wiped out into an Int 2 (or whatever) creature that acted on instinct and cunning.
It would be as bad as killing you... worse so, since at least dying meant you could remain "yourself" and continue on to the afterlife or whatever. "A fate worse than death" so to speak.
That's why it made sense. They were thrust to the edges of society, because no one wanted to be reminded of the horrible price of failure... not because they were "enemies of the Drow". They killed Drow as much as anything else because they were basically of a beast mind level... not because they had some society based on hating the Drow.
I've seen Driders used in a Drow encounter all the time... as a beast controlled by the Drow used as a brute, a bit better than fodder.
Whatever, I stopped playing FR a long time ago anyways, so I have no vested interest in the changes. Just seems odd that people are suddenly claiming "it didn't make sense" like they forgot any of the lore behind it.
Yes, it was making them more in the image of their Deity... but No, it was not a blessing, as it basically destroyed their mind in the process. If you can't be a successful Drow, at least you can be a useful tool of Lolth (like a beast of burden is useful).
It would be as bad as killing you... worse so, since at least dying meant you could remain "yourself" and continue on to the afterlife or whatever. "A fate worse than death" so to speak.
That's why it made sense. They were thrust to the edges of society, because no one wanted to be reminded of the horrible price of failure... not because they were "enemies of the Drow". They killed Drow as much as anything else because they were basically of a beast mind level... not because they had some society based on hating the Drow.
I've seen Driders used in a Drow encounter all the time... as a beast controlled by the Drow used as a brute, a bit better than fodder.
Whatever, I stopped playing FR a long time ago anyways, so I have no vested interest in the changes. Just seems odd that people are suddenly claiming "it didn't make sense" like they forgot any of the lore behind it.
Yes, it was making them more in the image of their Deity... but No, it was not a blessing, as it basically destroyed their mind in the process. If you can't be a successful Drow, at least you can be a useful tool of Lolth (like a beast of burden is useful).
Nifft
Penguin Herder
Not 3e or 3.5e. Driders had mental stats that allowed spellcasting (+4 Int, +6 Wis, +6 Cha) -- they were better... stronger... faster.
"We can rebuild him. We have the theology.", -- N
Gothmog
First Post
Well, I think Lolth is emo.
Think about it- she loses some big war, gets cursed and turned into a spider-demon thing, and broods in her lair.
So it only makes sense to her to take the brightest and most ruthless of her followers and turn them into beasties like her. She's full of self-loathing, and she is jealous of those who show promise but haven't been cursed with a horrible form.
BAM- Lolth is emo.
In all seriousness, this change makes sense to me. I never understood why Lolth would curse those who failed a test to be more powerful and deadly, and to emulate her form and abilities.
Think about it- she loses some big war, gets cursed and turned into a spider-demon thing, and broods in her lair.
So it only makes sense to her to take the brightest and most ruthless of her followers and turn them into beasties like her. She's full of self-loathing, and she is jealous of those who show promise but haven't been cursed with a horrible form.
BAM- Lolth is emo.
In all seriousness, this change makes sense to me. I never understood why Lolth would curse those who failed a test to be more powerful and deadly, and to emulate her form and abilities.
Terwox
First Post
I like the change, although I've never used driders, and never seriously used drow anyway.
No big deal to remove it though if it's important to you. Male medusae are ridiculous to me, and a poll I posted here said that I was much in the minority. No big deal at all that most people are cool with it -- I'm not, and they won't feature in my games. It's easy.
No big deal to remove it though if it's important to you. Male medusae are ridiculous to me, and a poll I posted here said that I was much in the minority. No big deal at all that most people are cool with it -- I'm not, and they won't feature in my games. It's easy.
