DriveThruRPG Exclusivity

[francisca]

What I need to decide is are these "alleged" customers who claim they wont buy my pdfs with DRM actually going to be customers if I remove the DRM (presuming I am willing to) or not?

Right now, I'm not sure. What I see is alot of new people posting here. I suspect these are RPG.net types who have come here to vent their bile and anger over this issue. I also take note that RPG.net is on fire with this discussion, which speaks volumes to me as to how I should interpret this.

I will, if you put some other products up, as I have already stated 3 or 4 times. You can take that to the bank. I like your products, I like your approach to products. But I won't touch DRM.

I'm not some refugee from rpg.net looking to rake muck. And if you need a direct e-mail detailing my complaints about DRM, fine. I'll compose and send you one after dinner.

 

[evileeyore]

My thoughts as an up-and-coming ebook consumer*.

I dislike the restrictions imposed by DRM. My reasoning is as such: I am the owner of the product, how I treat it (within the clauses of fair use) is my concern. If I wish to print, copy/paste snippets, or archive it, that is my choice. Most importantly, I would like to bring it to a friends house for game. If I am forced to register their machine in order to do so, I won't buy the product. Also I can't just lend it to a friend to read.

Now what if I crash the system, losing my hardrive? Have I lost something I just paid money for, something I have no way of protecting from said crash? Yes.

Now having raised those points... I plan to simply strip the DRM and use the pdf (within the fair use deal) as I choose. Note; I am a computer n00b. But I do read forums, and some of them are very informative about how to do this.

--EvilE

*I never really paid ebooks or pdf book versions much attention, I am a CyberLuddite. However, this recent vitriol fuelled debate has me looking around absolutely marveling at the awesome gems I had little awareness of previously.

 

[Orcus]

It may not have been forced upon you, but from here (which is a place of limited information, I admit), it looks like it wasn't a well-informed decision. You gave your product to a vendor, knowing that it would be encrypted, but you don't know your rights regarding removing that encryption? From such a thoughtful guy as you, I find that a tad surprising.

Of course I know my rights regarding removing DRM and distributing naked PDFs. It would benefit me, perhaps, to play stupid and say "gosh I just didnt know." But I chose to have that protection. I cant speak for other publishers, but I knew about DRM/Adobe restrictions.

It leaves me wondering. Were you told of how easy it was to bypass? Were you told that it would be controversial? Did any of you go out and ask some of the computer-savvy geeks that comprise your target market what they thought of DRM before deciding to use it?

I dont believe it is as easy to bypass as is being represented. Can people do it? Of course. I'm not that worried about limited piracy. I know it cant ever be stopped. Let me worry about piracy of my products.

No I didnt ask "computer savvy geeks" as you call them what they think about DRM because I know what they think: Some are totally ambivilent, some dont like it but will deal with it, others will threaten to burn down your house if you mention DRM. I have learned absolutely nothing new since then, and my assessment was correct. It shouldnt surprise anyone with a clue that anything short of a naked pdf will ruffle some feathers.

But there were all sorts of reasons why DTRPG was going to ruffle feathers: hardcore RPGNow fans would be offended that there was a percieved competitor; it is run by a guy affiliated with WW, which brings all that baggage; it looks like the "big guy" which always offends gamers who invariably affiliate themselves with the little guy (moreso probably in the electronic gamer realm since any big guy is just an extension of the hard feelings from the evil pc vs. mac/microsoft vs. everyone else/windows vs. all other OS issues). And, as an additional matter, DRM pisses some people off.

In the end, I had to make a business decision. And guess what, you cant please everyone. I felt the value of using DRM as part of DTRPG--so that it would attract a lot of really cool companies to provide top notch content--outweighed the negatives. DRM is just one of the problems.

But as I look at it I wanted to be a part of this if I was going to enter into distributing pdfs.

I dont NOT view my customers as the enemy. In fact, quite the opposite. But as a business I cant take a one issue approach to things, which is a freedom that customers have.

I have found these comments very helpful. As I mentioned before, I have already begun discussion on removing copy/paste restrictions on my products. And I am open to any other suggestions. I contine to listen and observe and will do my best to find a solution that meets my needs and the needs of my customers.

Clark

 

[jgbrowning]

I felt the value of using DRM as part of DTRPG--so that it would attract a lot of really cool companies to provide top notch content--outweighed the negatives. DRM is just one of the problems.

Clark

The cool companies providing top notch content is the real attraction to a potential new publisher signing on if they have any awareness about security realities. Whether or not the other companies use DRM isn't really an issue IMO, except for that companies not using DRM would have a larger potential market than DRM users because any person willing to buy a DRM is also willing to buy a plain PDF, but the opposite is not true.

This is the part I just I don't get, the market is larger without DRM than with DRM. Publishers are limiting their market because they think they'll recoup the difference through piracy prevention. Again this boils down to does DRM prevent more sales lost to piracy than it causes sales lost to people who don't want DRM?

All discussions about DRM are about this core matter. Either it increases the bottom line, or it doesn't. Since I can prove that more people are willing to buy PDFs than DRMs (as everyone willing to buy a DRM is certainly willing to buy a PDF but the opposite is most certainly not true) I feel that there must be very convincing arguments on the other side to show how that lost market segement is recovered through DRMs "piracy reduction".

I don't think that this been shown and I think the whole DRM is a "feel good" factor for most publishers. They feel like they should do "something" to protect their copyrights, but that something is definitely counter-productive (as shown through a smaller potential market) without showing how the benefits of DRM are supposed to compensate for that decrease. I think publishers don't want to face the fact that they've lost control of their IP to anyone who wants to get their product illegally already: even before entering the PDF market.

I'm being a pragmatic. I don't like piracy, but I do like more money. If I'm going to do PDF, I'm going to do it in a way that maximizes profit/potential profit from that decision.

Joseph Browning
Expeditious Retreat Press

 

[msd]

This is the part I just I don't get, the market is larger without DRM than with DRM. Publishers are limiting their market because they think they'll recoup the difference through piracy prevention. Again this boils down to does DRM prevent more sales lost to piracy than it causes sales lost to people who don't want DRM?

And the real potential tragedy, IMHO, is that publishers who were not previously into PDF products might look (should it happen to occur) at slow PDF sales through DTRPG and conclude that "wow...PDF just isn't worth it." This would be tragic because I don't think thats what customers are saying at all. PDFs are very much worth it...PDFs with DRM are less so (I won't say worthless).

I dont blame the publishers because I can appreciate their concerns and fears. I don't blame DTRPG because more competition in a free market is always a good thing. I don't blame the customers because...well...the customer is always right.

Nonetheless, if DTRPG has less than stellar success because of DRM and publishers fail to attribute that record specifically to DRM, that will be a tragedy. The publisher will have one less channel for their products, gamers will have fewer choices, etc. In short, nothing good.

Personally, as someone who has read this thread religiously while only posting once early on, its nice to see that a civil tone has re-emerged. Hopefully, a continuing discussion between publisher and consumer can make it so that can both get what we want in the end.

-matt

 

[BryonD]

I dont believe it is as easy to bypass as is being represented.

I promise you it REALLY is.

I've never been into anything remotely like hacking.
Friday night I decided to give DRM removal a shot.
Half an hour later I was done.
It is downright sad how easy it was.

 

[Tsyr]

To expound on what Byron said...

I *assure* you it is as easy as is beign said.

I figured it out in about 3 minutes. Basicly the first thing I tried worked. And it was just a logical conclusion based on what DRM lets you do.

 

[Umbran]

Of course I know my rights regarding removing DRM and distributing naked PDFs.

My apologies if I came across as insulting. It was just that the front page of DTRPG and your statement, "Could I call DTRPG and ask them to remove DRM? I guess I could," seemed to conflict, and perhaps I drew the wrong conclusion.

I dont believe it is as easy to bypass as is being represented.

I myself cannot try it, as on my Win98 machine, I can't deal with DRM documents at all. However, some of the folks pointing out the weaknesses are ones I'd trust to know what they're talking about.

Let me worry about piracy of my products.

Honestly, I'm not all that worried about how many of your products get stolen. Some of us are interested in the subject of piracy policy in general. We'd like to see the industry (and society in general) take an enlightened, reasonable, well-considered, functional route in dealing with IP. There's some solid arguments that, in the long run, taking on a poor security standard is worse for both business and consumers than having no security at all.

But as a business I cant take a one issue approach to things, which is a freedom that customers have.

Not all customers think it's a one-issue problem. Some of us recognize some of the complexity. We simply wonder about the priority given to some of the issues, is all

 

[Dinkeldog]

I promise you it REALLY is.

I've never been into anything remotely like hacking.
Friday night I decided to give DRM removal a shot.
Half an hour later I was done.
It is downright sad how easy it was.

Guys, any fence in the world wouldn't take that long to penetrate. Security measures can only really keep the honest people honest. The dishonest ones are going to do whatever they please.

 

[PJ-Mason]

If you are afraid of the bleed over from RPG.net then feel free to discount some of the newer posters. But please don't discount ENWorld regulars (you can check the post counts and join dates by their avatars). You will likely find that many of the regulars here are part of the anti-DRM movement as well.

In my defense, i have been with ENWorld since near the beginning as Warchild. A few months ago i came back to ENW after a few month hiatus due to a busted computer that that didn't get addressed until i got around to it. Once i did i tried to reactivate my account but forgot the password and had a new email address, blah blah. I ended up just going with a new name on the boards.

Anyway, if it'll strengthen the value of my opinions, just add 200-300 to my post count to get a semi-accurate figure