DriveThruRPG Exclusivity

[Bloodstone Press]

there's no rules about offending the opposition.

True enough. But when you've asked the opposition for help, they help you, then you turn around and slap them in the face, it doesn't generate a lot of good karma.

I think most of us PDF guys put out 90%+ OGC anyway, so we're not too fussed over our PI.

I think so too, but the DRM issue is more about piracy than PI.

However, there is one factor about DTRPG that does intrigue me; the ability to be in a smaller pond. At RPGNow we're a small fish in a very large pond, if we were to (hypothetically) move to DTRPG we'd be stil be a small fish, but in a much smaller pond, and might pick up a extra sales as a result.

We might. In fact I think what would happen is that we would be exposed to a different audience than the one that frequently shops at RPGnow (a WW audience rather than a WotC audience). I also think that audience would be smaller as well. Therfore, I think the net result in our sales would be less.

call it a bit of devils advocate,

most of the time I'm on the devil's side myself!

If by MSN you mean MSN messenger, then chances are good you have a MS passport. Unless I missed something, you do the passport thing when you sign up for messenger.

I mean Microsoft Network. Yeah, I've got some sort of passport thing. I don't use it. I don't use MS messenger either. Its just not something that appeals to me and I don't seem to need it to function on the net.

Look at the bright side they have given you marketing fodder forever Hertz/Avis, Pepsi/Coke, Democrates/ Republicans....

I don't think it'll come to that. They will have to do a lot better in a number of areas before they are a viable alternative to RPGnow. They are caught in the same catch 22 that every similar business has been in (small number of products, small customer base). They can't grow one without having the other. They are making it hard on themselves by implementing the exclusive agreements.

It'll be more like PC/mac rather than Pepsi/Coke

The DRM is not enough added value for most publishers since
a. it doesn't work very well.
b. it is bothersome to the consumers

The small band of elite publishers isn't enough to appeal to a mass audience of consumers for the reasons I cited above. They simply can't produce the range of material that RPGnow offers, and being "elite" counts less and less everyday in this industry.

And again, for the record: I think DTRPG will be successful, just not as successful as RPGnow.

Ok, now I must get busy on more important things.

 

[Bloodstone Press]

Ugh, Dana you're like the plague!

first, I agree with nearly everything you've been saying in this thread. I just have a small point to add:

I went through the vendors' manufacturer pages. 98 of them have 0, 1, or 2 products listed. About another 50 only have three products listed. And many of them have not produced a single new product in more than 8 months (A few haven't done anything new in over a year). So there is a lot of clutter crowding around the producing vendors, making it look like a huge pond.

To illustrate what I've been saying about the wide range of material offered on RPGnow, imagine what would happen if James simply cut all products from the sort of vendors you've mentioned.

(I know that's not what you are suggesting)

I think if he did that, it would reduce the value of the site in the eyes of the customers. Clearly, more titles, covering a wider range is a better way to go; not a small group of publishers with relatively narrow product foci.

The one thing I'd like to see James do is clean out all those cobwebs, maybe divide the site up into active, semiactive, and inactive publishers, and require some sort of production schedule from publishers, say some new product every 4-6 months to remain classified as an active vendor (go more than 12 months with nothing new and become an inactive vendor). If the site did that, with a default to display only the active vendors (with semiactive and inactive vendors accessible by a menu bar link), the pond would shrink down to look the proper size.

I don't know. I think the fact that "new" products are always at the top of the lists means that any inactive publishers will eventually find their way to the bottom and not add to the clutter on most of the pages.

Nevertheless, I'm not opposed to your suggestion.

What contributes to the clutter is the "buck-o-batch" products that have been sweeping the site lately.

Well, I'd like to see all that and vendors shouldn't even appear on the site until they have one product active.

I'd like that too.

Ok, NOW I'm going to go work on more important things.

 

[Kosala]

Impressions of using DriveThru RPG

Greretings all!

I thought I might share some impressions of DriveThru after having fiddled with its services the last day or two.

Joining the Site
This was notorioulsy difficult yesterday since they demanded that my STATE be entered and the options had no alternative for those outside the US which made registration impossible. This has now been fixed and registration went smoothly.

The Site in General
Most appallingly designed user experience I have endured in ages. Slow load times. However in their defense, its faster today than yesterday so they seem to be doing something about it.

DRM driven PDFs
The download, activation and usage of the DRM driven PDFs was completely painless. After downloading the PDF Adobe reader took over and in a couple of dialog driven click throughs I had the entire thing setup. Took less than a minute.

The downside: you must have an internet connection to activate the product on your computer or when making an activated backup when transfering it to another computer. You DO NOT need to have an active internet connection to read the product, or so it seems. Adobe Reader has a step by step guide to making activated backups of the file and it works painlessly.

Copying is limited to 10 times in 10 days for reasons that are beyond me.

Printing works fine.

Vendors and DriveThru
For vendors and publishers I am unclear on DriveThru's policies. I have been trying to get them to answer me on what policies and procedures need to be adhered to as a vendor selling PDFs there but no clear answer has been forthcoming. Its possible that they expect all vendors to sign exclusivity deals to agree to sell there, but I am as yet unsure of this. When I contacted them about it they asked me to send in sample pages of one of our upcoming PDFs for "approval"

Pricing of products
One word ... ludicrous. The pricing of original PDFs are fine. The pricing of scanned books turned into PDFs are ludicrous.

Overall Consumer View
Overall as a consumer, both RPGnow and DriveThru seem to be viable alternatives. The DRM does not cause that much bother, but the slow site does. Hopefully they will have that in gear and do something about the pricing on the non-original PDFs.

As a vendor and publisher I would lean towards RPGnow, if for no other reason than the fact that DriveThru has no clear and publicly available policy to date and they are too untried to consider any sort of exclusivity.

Hope this helps the discussion.

 

[Dana_Jorgensen]

Both Monte and FDP used the line "first completely professional gaming site" (or some paraphrase thereof) in their press releases which says to me its a "talking point" of the site.

In other words that phrase is meant to steer you away from all the "unprofessionals" over at RPGNow who were not invited or declined the invitation to play with the cool kids.

Chuck

Actually, this slight isn't from the vendors themselves, but DTRPG. If you notice, the Malhavoc, FDP and GoO press releases all include the same "about DTRPG" statement. Stock footage, canned code, all from the same source, their chosen online retail outlet.

At the very least unprofessional of White Wolf to include such a statement, and the publishers agreeing to include that wording should be ashamed of themselves for allowing it in their press releases.

 

[Cergorach]

At the very least unprofessional of White Wolf to include such a statement, and the publishers agreeing to include that wording should be ashamed of themselves for allowing it in their press releases.

ROFL!

*takes a break from ROFL*

It's like the pot saying the kettle is black.
Look who's talking about unprofesional behavior and doing things that publishers should be ashamed of...

*goes back to ROFL*

 

[johnsemlak]

Pricing of products
One word ... ludicrous. The pricing of original PDFs are fine. The pricing of scanned books turned into PDFs are ludicrous.

For some products, yes. But I think the prices depend on teh publisher. As I looked through, I found hte prices for print products from Sword and Sorcery and Sovereign Stone to be very reasonable--about half price in general. For example, Age of Mortals, the print version of which retails at $40, sells at $20.

I think the publishers themselves decide the prices. Hopefully, some of them will come down a bit.

 

[Dana_Jorgensen]

ROFL!

*takes a break from ROFL*

It's like the pot saying the kettle is black.
Look who's talking about unprofesional behavior and doing things that publishers should be ashamed of...

*goes back to ROFL*

Hey, twit, my press releases have NEVER said anything that could be taken as a slight against another company. In fact nothing in any official company correspondence I've written in the last 12 years has said anything that would have even remotely insulted anyone.

You really, REALLY need to learn the difference between corporate communications and personal communications.

 

[Cergorach]

Hey, twit, my press releases have NEVER said anything that could be taken as a slight against another company. In fact nothing in any official company correspondence I've written in the last 12 years has said anything that would have even remotely insulted anyone.

You really, REALLY need to learn the difference between corporate communications and personal communications.

Ok, that might be true, but the difference between 'oficial' and 'personal' becomes a bit vague at ENworld...
I just found it SO funny that of all people to say it, it would be you. *grins*

 

[Bloodstone Press]

This statement:

Both Monte and FDP used the line "first completely professional gaming site" (or some paraphrase thereof) in their press releases which says to me its a "talking point" of the site

And this statement:

Actually, this slight isn't from the vendors themselves, but DTRPG. If you notice, the Malhavoc, FDP and GoO press releases all include the same "about DTRPG" statement. Stock footage, canned code, all from the same source, their chosen online retail outlet.

are identical.

 

[The Mad Kaiser]

James,
Some times it is best to avoid a subject and other times it is best to confront.

James will have his revenge when the Gray Davis of pdfs craps-out and Monte Crook has to crawl back to RPGNow on his snake belly.

Unfortunately for us, James will probably let him slink back in, if only for the higher sales.

If I sound harsh, well I am. This is foul business from top to bottom. From the "professionals only" jab, to the distrust of customers, to the fact that they blame their lagging sales on piracy, and not on such gems as "When the Sky Falls" and "Chaositech".

Have fun at the Grown-Ups table, Monte. Us 'kids' will be at the Card-Table in the Kitchen, telling naughty jokes and spilling the gravy.