DriveThruRPG Exclusivity

[Dana_Jorgensen]

Really, what I'd like to see happen in the future is for DTRPG to come off the exclusivity clause in their contract so their vendors can still sell on other sites. They need to come up with some other sort of added value besides DRM to appeal to more vendors (if that is their plan).

This is very unlikely to happen.. This is because they chose to use Acrobat Content Server for their delivery engine, which requires all PDFs it serves to be Acrobat 6.0 generated, DRM-ready files. The only way they would possibly allow a break in the exclusivity is if:

1.) The vendor was substantial enough to force the break (only a hanful are, WotC and perhaps Palladium)

2.) The secondary vendors also used the Acrobat DRM model.


so it will be awhile before anyone escapes the exclusivity clause without dumping DTRPG as a vendor.

 

[Cergorach]

So Steve... care to comment on that "first completely professional" claim in the press release? That sure seems to have ruffled a lot of feathers...

He already has, here:
http://rpg.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=127041&perpage=10&pagenumber=50

As for the "professional" verbiage in press releases I have discussed that with James at RPGNow and apologized to him. It is, as has already been said here, marketing-speak that broke into a greyzone.

Steve

Also, are you planning to track the effectiveness of your DRM protection by, say, scanning Kazaa? Haven't looked, but I wouldn't be surprised if a cracked version of your free demos was already available!

I have looked, nothing yet in the usual channels ;-)

 

[The Mad Kaiser]

Just to keep debunking misinformation here.

Please do. You can start by answering these questions:

Just as I know James at RPGNow does, we would naturally want to review material for legal-pornogrpahy reasons as well as to make sure we're not loading up vaporware products. That's not the same thing in my mind as "approval".

How many have been rejected?
How many popular non-print publishers have been aquired?
What is your commision rate(s)?

DriveThruRPG.com did not approach pdf-only publishers prior to our launch for a couple reasons 1) Too busy to take on the additional publisher clients and provide any level of service and 2) We have no enimity for James and RPGNow and feel no compulsion to aggressively compete with his great business by aggressively pursruing his whole publisher base and redundantly offering them to the market.

Then why was your company trying to aquire RPGNow?
Why did James turn you down?
If you can't handle more than 16 publishers at a time, what would you have done to the "additional publisher clients" already selling at RPGNow?
What makes pdf-only publishers so "service intensive" compaired to print-only?
If you do not wish to "aggressively compete" with RPGNow, why do you insist that popular (now former RPGNow) publishers be exclusive?

When we are prepared to take on and properly service more publishers we will make the type of terms Kosala (and others here have discussed in posts) available for publishers to review. There's not much point in our taking on more publishers if we can't treat them properly. It's not being elitist it's being realistic.

So you aren't ready take on and properly service publishers? You were ready to take over RPGNow.
Your site brags it's the first "All Professional" pdf site. Will you change this motto to match your "When we are prepared to take on and properly service more publishers we will make the type of terms... available for publishers to review." statement?
What exactly do you mean by 'properly service'? What services do you offer publishers beyond a check and webspace?
Couldn't you save everyone much work by removing the questionable and unpopular DRM restrictions?

You don't need to answer the questions of a lowly 'unprofessional' dog, but your silence will speak volumes for me.

EDIT

And let the record show, I'm glad the 'pros' are leaving RPGNow. I'm POed that they'll be coming back after Drive-Spew sinks like a turd. And worse, this time it'll be with their friends from the formerly ludite 'print-only' crowd that was too cowardly to try something new, until us "unprofessionals" took a chance and broke new ground.

 

[Dana_Jorgensen]

Hey all,

I just wanted to drop a quick note to let you know that we're listening to all the feedback here. I think that a lot of people are a bit surprised by the backlash against DRM technology - it's all relatively new, and there's plenty of issues to consider about it.

Anyway, we're listening. I'm also reading the threads on the main forum and taking notes as appropriate.

Dude, exactly what planet have you guys been living on since 1999?!

Adobe has been offering some form of DRM since somewhere in the Acrobat 4.x release series, nearly six years ago. They've been pushing it on publishers the entire time. Not coincidentally, they have also been making new versions completely incompatible with prior versions, forcing you to keep multiple installations of Acrobat Reader in their "evil Adobe plot to steal your hard drive from Microsoft*"

All amusement aside, yes, that's correct, Adobe has been offering incarnations of DRM for half a decade. Adobe DRM has been around for half the world wide web's lifespan at this point. The fact that you guys think it is something new should suggest to you something important: Adobe DRM has yet to properly do anything it claims.


* this plot is as of yet unconfirmed and there for nothing but inane rumormongering

 

[Flyspeck23]

About "completely professional gaming e-Book site". Well, you could say that some of the vendors at RPG Now aren't that professional (but that'd include some of the bigger companies too, mind you), but RPG Now as a site (as that's what that sentence is implying)? No way.

So, now we're seriously thinking about doing some projects specifically for PDF or with print-and-pdf releases planned, and if you were trying to figure out which horse to hitch your wagon to, and one site had WW, FFG, Malhavoc, Necromancer -- isn't that a good indicator that something is going on?

Don't get me wrong - I wish you all the best.

It's not this whole "exclusive vendors" issue or anything else, it's that darn DRM. If DriveThruRPG wouldn't use that, I wouldn't mind the "big guys" (and Fiery Dragon ) marchin' there.

If, as Monte Cook says, the main benefit of the DRM is to bring more print publishers into ePublishing, and that same print publishers are pricing their PDFs way too high, that's no benefit at all IMHO.

It certainly won't stop piracy. And in fact the only people that'll feel the DRM's presence at all are the honest customers.

Anyway, we're listening. I'm also reading the threads on the main forum and taking notes as appropriate.

It's kind of late for that, don't you think?

 

[Kosala]

Just to keep debunking misinformation here. Kosala and I have traded a couple e-mails about DriveThruRPG.com's publisher terms and no where in those e-mails did I use the word "approval" as Kosala would indicate in his quoted message above.

Just to be clear I do not see it as negative that you want to approve publisher content before admitting a new publisher. My first email to you was asking about policies for your work with publishers. You responded by asking me to send a sample PDF. That sounded very much like an approval process to me. I do not however see that as a nagative thing and did not mean it as such in my quote here.

Just as I know James at RPGNow does, we would naturally want to review material for legal-pornogrpahy reasons as well as to make sure we're not loading up vaporware products. That's not the same thing in my mind as "approval".

That is exactly the same thing as approval. And once again, I do not see that as being strange. It would be very peculiar if you did not have an approval process.

 

[mearls]

All amusement aside, yes, that's correct, Adobe has been offering incarnations of DRM for half a decade. Adobe DRM has been around for half the world wide web's lifespan at this point. The fact that you guys think it is something new should suggest to you something important: Adobe DRM has yet to properly do anything it claims.

PDF publishing, and even the Internet, are still big scary things for most RPG companies. Compare the typical RPG website to, say, ESPN.com or Amazon. RPG publishers are far behind the curve. I wouldn't be surprised if I'm the only full-time RPG employee who understands C, Java, and Perl.

Sure, there are a lot of smaller companies that have gone with PDFs, and even Wizards go into the game early on, but most of the mid-tier publishers and industry people are terrified of piracy and distrustful of PDF technology.

The other problem to look at is the divide between how customers use PDFs and how publishers look at them. If you download PDFs to one computer, say a laptop, and use them there exclusively on that machine (including printing) you aren't liable to notice much difference with the move to DRM aside from the initial set up. I've been testing it myself, and I don't see any difference. (That aside, there's been plenty of valid concerns, particularly the problems encountered when going to Kinko's or a similar place for printing.)

I'm not saying it's right or wrong. But I am saying you need to look at this from a publisher's point of view. Few, if any, of them are tech heads.

 

[mearls]

It's kind of late for that, don't you think?

People run companies, not the other way around. I have no idea how this will end up, since I can't say anything definitive until I see some hard data, but if people are unhappy it's our duty to our customers to try to make them happy.

 

[Brown Jenkin]

PDF publishing, and even the Internet, are still big scary things for most RPG companies. Compare the typical RPG website to, say, ESPN.com or Amazon. RPG publishers are far behind the curve. I wouldn't be surprised if I'm the only full-time RPG employee who understands C, Java, and Perl.

Sure, there are a lot of smaller companies that have gone with PDFs, and even Wizards go into the game early on, but most of the mid-tier publishers and industry people are terrified of piracy and distrustful of PDF technology.

The other problem to look at is the divide between how customers use PDFs and how publishers look at them. If you download PDFs to one computer, say a laptop, and use them there exclusively on that machine (including printing) you aren't liable to notice much difference with the move to DRM aside from the initial set up. I've been testing it myself, and I don't see any difference. (That aside, there's been plenty of valid concerns, particularly the problems encountered when going to Kinko's or a similar place for printing.)

I'm not saying it's right or wrong. But I am saying you need to look at this from a publisher's point of view. Few, if any, of them are tech heads.

I understand why some companies only want to get involved if there is copy protection (I don't agree, but I understand).

My question to you Mike is why did Malhavoc choose to go here as well. Malhavoc has been at the forefront of PDF rpg products and seemed to be doing quite well at RPGnow with regular PDFs. While other publishers may be impressed with the phantom security that DRM offers I can't imagine that you or Monte really believe that DRM technology will really stop your product from being pirated. If it is true that you have the option of working with DTRPG or not, what is it about their service that made you switch vendors and formats.

 

[BryonD]

but if people are unhappy it's our duty to our customers to try to make them happy.

That is certainly refreshing to hear. Honestly.

However, in addition to adobe DRM being old, DRM type technologies have been on the receiving end of consumer backlash before as well. So it may be new to RPG publishing. But it ain't new by a longshot and there is no reason to think that the RPG consumers will be slightly more open to this than the public at large was in other instances. Heck, I'd bet the RPG audience (and even more so the PDF using RPG audience) is MORE sensitive to this kind of thing.