DriveThruRPG Exclusivity

[Monte At Home]

My question to you Mike is why did Malhavoc choose to go here as well. Malhavoc has been at the forefront of PDF rpg products and seemed to be doing quite well at RPGnow with regular PDFs.

As I said in my column, it's because I so heartily support the idea of other, print-only publishers, entering into the electronic market. I've always done what I could to support the idea that electronic products are quality products and worth people's time. I entered the field (long before there was an RPGNow) and found great success with it, and so I've grabbed on with both hands. I couldn't even begin to list the articles I've written and interviews I've given to encourage people to try electronic products. (I certainly remember those early days when the numbers of people against pdfs in general were as great or greater than the number of people upset here today. Do some research into pdf publishing and you'll see see that most gamers don't trust it, are wary of it, or just don't like it.) I even wrote for RPGNow's epublishing guide for free to help encourage the professionalism of the marketplace (and I think that that guide did help).

So the idea that DriveThru can get so many publishers into this new market? Yeah, I'll go to great length to support that. And this isn't just altruism on my part, obviously. When a company like White Wolf puts practically their whole catalog on line as electronic products, or when quality companies like Fantasy Flight, Eden, and so on put electronic versions of even their newer releases up for sale, that draws a lot more people into the potential pdf audience and helps change the minds of people who erroneously believe that all pdfs are crap simply by their very medium.

I wish there was a way to get at least some people to see the bigger picture. If you like electronic products, imagine the day when whenever a publisher--any and every publisher--releases a book, it's in both electronic and print format. What DriveThru is doing is the biggest step toward that ideal in the last three years.

And for what it's worth, just as another data point, I've gotten the helpful folks at DriveThru to relax all cut and paste restrictions on Malhavoc products.

 

[jgbrowning]

I wish there was a way to get at least some people to see the bigger picture. If you like electronic products, imagine the day when whenever a publisher--any and every publisher--releases a book, it's in both electronic and print format. What DriveThru is doing is the biggest step toward that ideal in the last three years.

I think everyone here understands the great possiblities about the future. Being able to get any book electronically would be simply awesome.

I just think that what the people are trying to get the publishers to understand is that being able to get any product electronically in DRM format isn't awesome. For a lot of people, it's actually worse than not being able to get the product (legally) at all.

Honestly, people can already get almost any rpg product in electronic form. What it seems people really think would be awesome would be to get the electronic product while paying the publisher. But to do that, the product coming from the publisher has to be at least as user-friendly as the pirated versions. If the files are not as good, the publisher is disincenting their customers to pay, because the for-pay version isn't as good as the free version.

And for what it's worth, just as another data point, I've gotten the helpful folks at DriveThru to relax all cut and paste restrictions on Malhavoc products.

I'm really glad you got them to listen to you. I hope you'll keep pushing to show them that what the paying customers really want is to be able to whatever they want with what they've purchased. The customer own the copy, not the copyright. And the reverse goes for publishers: we own the copyright, not the copy.

joe b.

 

[BryonD]

I wish there was a way to get at least some people to see the bigger picture.

I'm struggling with how to say this politely. Please accept that it is meant to be so.

First, that sounds absurdly arrogant.


And considering the checkered past of DRM technologies in various fields, and the numerous unresolved and unanswered questions regarding this move, regardless of whether I see the big picture or not, it seems highly questionable that the people defending this move do.

 

[Brown Jenkin]

First let me say thank you for answering. I have always supported Malhavoc and any comments I make should be taken with that in mind.

As I said in my column, it's because I so heartily support the idea of other, print-only publishers, entering into the electronic market. I've always done what I could to support the idea that electronic products are quality products and worth people's time. I entered the field (long before there was an RPGNow) and found great success with it, and so I've grabbed on with both hands. I couldn't even begin to list the articles I've written and interviews I've given to encourage people to try electronic products. (I certainly remember those early days when the numbers of people against pdfs in general were as great or greater than the number of people upset here today. Do some research into pdf publishing and you'll see see that most gamers don't trust it, are wary of it, or just don't like it.) I even wrote for RPGNow's epublishing guide for free to help encourage the professionalism of the marketplace (and I think that that guide did help)..

I don't think anyone will deny the great effort you have put into making PDFs a respected part of the RPG market.

So the idea that DriveThru can get so many publishers into this new market? Yeah, I'll go to great length to support that. And this isn't just altruism on my part, obviously. When a company like White Wolf puts practically their whole catalog on line as electronic products, or when quality companies like Fantasy Flight, Eden, and so on put electronic versions of even their newer releases up for sale, that draws a lot more people into the potential pdf audience and helps change the minds of people who erroneously believe that all pdfs are crap simply by their very medium..

So you moved to DTRPG because if you hadn't these other companies wouldn't have trusted DTRPG but your pressence made the difference and that without your moving to DTRPG these other companies would not have agreed to sell there products as PDFs at all. Is that correct? Even White Wolf who owns DTRPG and has by far the largest catalog availible wouldn't have done this venture at all if you wern't aboard?

I wish there was a way to get at least some people to see the bigger picture. If you like electronic products, imagine the day when whenever a publisher--any and every publisher--releases a book, it's in both electronic and print format. What DriveThru is doing is the biggest step toward that ideal in the last three years.

The bigger picture from a consumer point of view is that even if all products are made availible in print and electronic format from day one, if the electronic format is one that you can't use effectively or at all it is the same as having no electronic option at all. I'm glad you are working to bring more publishers into the electronic market, but by taking them down the road of a format that is destined to fail are you realy doing the best thing for them. I'm still confused on this point. Do you realy believe that DRM is the way of the future or are you willing to sacrifice your own profits so that these other publishers will publish at all?

And for what it's worth, just as another data point, I've gotten the helpful folks at DriveThru to relax all cut and paste restrictions on Malhavoc products.

Have the Cut and paste restrictions been removed altogether or are they just lessened? This is a good first step and will probably bring back a portion of your lost costomers but there are still many more who this will not help or will still refuse to purchase DRM products altogether. If you realy want your customers back convince DTRPG to sell your PDFs with no DRM altogether as you were so successfuly doing previously. If other companies insist on DRM for their products that is their choice, but lead through example (Unless you realy believe that DRM is better).

 

[Psion]

The customer own the copy, not the copyright. And the reverse goes for publishers: we own the copyright, not the copy.

Brilliant summation, joe. That, to me, is what it is all about.

 

[Psion]

As I said in my column, it's because I so heartily support the idea of other, print-only publishers, entering into the electronic market.

Why does this require Malhavoc's participation in DriveThruRPG? Using DRM to get skittish publishers to participate where they never would before is great. But you were already established. You already lent your experience about the relation between PDF and print sales, and didn't seem to hold the same misconceptions that your print-first peers seem to have. As far as I can see, Malhavoc gains nothing and loses customers to the aggravation of the DRM model.

And for what it's worth, just as another data point, I've gotten the helpful folks at DriveThru to relax all cut and paste restrictions on Malhavoc products.

That is good. But please understand this: as far as Malhavoc's customers are concerned, they are worse off than they were a scant few days ago.

I wish there was a way to get at least some people to see the bigger picture. If you like electronic products, imagine the day when whenever a publisher--any and every publisher--releases a book, it's in both electronic and print format.

If that electronic format is one that I don't know if I will be able to use a few years down the road, I do not see my situation as significantly improved.

And that is the big picture that I wish you could come to understand.

I never pirate or share files. But when confronted with a product filled with many demonstrated problems and many more uncertainties, that product's arrival is not moving the market forward in any significant way.

Judging from your first reply, you see this as a knee jerk overreaction. You happen by ENWorld from time to time, so I imagine you are familiar with some of the crowd. Take a look around. These aren't the same people that cried when the d20 STL was revised, or the final SRD are issued. There are more level headed folks like (handy example) Buttercup that don't cry the sky is falling when the first cloud flies overhead. There are significant concerns and issues with this technology that a wide base of users are expressing.

 

[Krieg]

Sure, there are a lot of smaller companies that have gone with PDFs, and even Wizards go into the game early on, but most of the mid-tier publishers and industry people are terrified of piracy and distrustful of PDF technology.

So basically they've been sold a bill of goods on useless technology that will do absolutely nothing to inhibit piracy but will serve to hinder their legitimate customer base.

Lovely.

 

[PosterBoy]

I wish there was a way to get at least some people to see the bigger picture. If you like electronic products, imagine the day when whenever a publisher--any and every publisher--releases a book, it's in both electronic and print format. What DriveThru is doing is the biggest step toward that ideal in the last three years.

I think this is an important point as well. I hope these publishers eventually see the value of PDF sales. Cause in the end, I think if DriveThru succeeds, it will bring new customers into the market and that helps both RPGNow and DriveThru.

 

[PosterBoy]

When we are prepared to take on and properly service more publishers we will make the type of terms Kosala (and others here have discussed in posts) available for publishers to review. There's not much point in our taking on more publishers if we can't treat them properly. It's not being elitist it's being realistic.
Steve

I look forward to this day Steve. I think lots of pdf publishers are looking for expansion in the market and that includes more places to sell their ebooks.

I’m curious if DriveThruRPG will be 100% exclusive with all vendors you take on in the future? Or will it be a case by case basis?

 

[Sledge]

I think I see Monte's point.... He looks at DTRPG and sees the VHS vs Betamax issue. He wants to flood the market with the lower quality format thinking that it will "enrich" the market place. The bigger picture however is that I can't be bothered to buy books that won't do what I want. The entire setup of DTRPG has pushed me out of the market for all retailers therein. As a consumer spending my bucks I'm not about to throw them in the trash to support "The Bigger Picture" when all that means is I get junk. The real bigger picture is that I will still buy pdfs from RPGNow. The d20 system gives enough diversity that I will never NEED to bother with DTRPG. So a year from now we'll have a bunch of companies still using DTRPG and getting only a tiny return. The nature of the site will either sit forever as a rarely used and much abused site, or collapse. Either way it will not in the long run inspire further usage of the electronic documents.