DriveThruRPG Exclusivity

[BSF]

I'm not saying it's right or wrong. But I am saying you need to look at this from a publisher's point of view. Few, if any, of them are tech heads.

OK, this is the publishers forum, so that is a valid point. But, only in the context of the publisher. As a customer, I have to look at it from my point of view. I don't like DRM. I could go through all my reasons, but they are posted elsewhere and they aren't that different from many other people. Instead, I will just post a single "issue".

Tomorrow I will be burning some ISO images of the latest release of Fedora so I can install it on a laptop to take with me on vacation. Why Fedora and not Windows XP? Because I want to play with Linux. I would like to take my gaming PDF's with me in case I want to do some game prep. No biggie since I don't have any DRM PDF's. But, if I did, I would have to setup that laptop on a network connection with a linux version of a DRM enabled PDF reader, before I leave on Saturday morning. Then, I would need to "activate" every PDF that I might use on that laptop. Too much hassle. A DRM PDF provides less value to me, as a customer.

I wish there was a way to get at least some people to see the bigger picture. If you like electronic products, imagine the day when whenever a publisher--any and every publisher--releases a book, it's in both electronic and print format. What DriveThru is doing is the biggest step toward that ideal in the last three years.

That would be great! If using DRM is what it takes to get some of the publishers to view the market as "legitimate", then more power to them. I don't wish any ill will to any of the folks involved. But, if it is DRM PDF's that are making that possible, then I am sorry to say that I won't be part of the consumer base driving that forward. The writers and publishers have every right to sell their products however they choose. As a consumer, I choose to buy, or not to buy. I like PDF's. I don't like DRM PDF's. Yes, for many people there won't hardly be any change in the way the PDF's are used. For me, that isn't quite the case. I am probably a statistical abberation.

It's a shame really. When I bought Book of Eldritch Might, I did it because I thought it was cool that it was a PDF and I wanted to support Monte's courage to do that. I crossed my fingers and hoped that the PDF wouldn't be crap. I figured it it was crap, it was a low enough cost that I could eat it. I liked it and I have supported Malhavoc products by buying the ones that seem to appeal to me. I wouldn't mind supporting other publishers, but I won't support DRM PDF's.

 

[ThoughtBubble]

Well, this discussion prompted me to look at both DTRPG and RPGNOW. And frankly, a lot of the DTRPG stuff looks tempting. If more people had heavy discounts like the WW merchendise I might sign up.

But, call me stupid, I like printed and bound copies of RPG resources, especially the bigger ones. I like to be able to hand my friends a book, and tell them to read through it. So, most of those books that I can get pre-printed, I probablly will. In the case of the larger works, it's worth the $15 to me to have the solid one there. Though, if it was possible to get a book, and have some sort of one use code for accessing an additional discount on obtaining an electronic copy (or similar product) on DTRPG, I'd probablly be over there in an instant.

On adventures though, a copy on my laptop, and one printed version (B&W, stuffed in a notebook) seems like what I'd go after.

DRM always scares me, simply with regards to the question of "will this work tomorrow?" But I think this is the way that the modern electronic market has to head to remain profitable. It's interesting to watch.

 

[Flyspeck23]

DRM always scares me, simply with regards to the question of "will this work tomorrow?" But I think this is the way that the modern electronic market has to head to remain profitable. It's interesting to watch.

You're obviously not the only one who thinks so. But copy protection of any sort will only stop casual piracy, and any cracked copy will be superior to the original - is that a good thing?

The "modern electronic market" should focus more on it's strength (for instance, it's easy to do updates, revisions and errata - and reach all previous customers, and their whole product will be fixed). If that'd be done on a regular basis, you'd punish the pirate and not the customer.

"Will this work tomorrow?" is a very good question. Let's assume DriveThru isn't around next year (and no, I don't believe that), then what? I'm not exactly a tech head either, so this is another thing I'm not sure about. And not being sure isn't a good thing if I'm a potential customer.

 

[The Mad Kaiser]

Let's assume DriveThru isn't around next year (and no, I don't believe that)

If it stays afloat, it will only be because money is channeled from a successful WW line to keep it afloat. Their ultimate goal is to drive RPGNow out of business and become the 'Amazon.com' of rpg pdfs. To that end, they will gladly run into the "red" for years, if need be.

Our rural Wal-Marts and Movie Galleries do the same thing;

1) Sell popular items at zero profit, and offer lots of 'freebies'
2) Drive the competition out of town to become Monopoly
3) Jack up prices and treat customers like crap
4) If competition moves in, start all over

It's a popular system, because it works. The chubby fanboys will rush to Drivel-Thru to get the pdfs, the exclusive contracts will insure RPGNow has nothing but "unprofessional" publishers, the chubby fanboys will pay too much for hobbled software, WW will cover it's losses from years before. RPGNow will be ridiculed by the flood of new 'tech-savvy' chubby fanboys for it's lack of pretty covers and 'famous' names.

"So What" you say?

So another avenue for those trying to get into RPG publishing, for love of the game, instead of love of the money, will be destroyed. Real talent will be crushed by the 'machine', and please enjoy White Wolf's newest gem; "Ravenloft: Van Helsing vs Blackula" with my complements.

 

[Tsyr]

Hey now.

Some of us chubby folks aren't morons who don't see DRM for what it is, thank you...

 

[The Mad Kaiser]

Hey now.

Some of us chubby folks aren't morons who don't see DRM for what it is, thank you...

"Chubby Fanboys" is my generic term for the bottom-feeders of the Geek-Chain. I'm sorry if I offended any Chubby Calculus Majors, Chubby Computer Programers, Chubby Dog-Groomers, etc.

I myself am a "Chubby Unproffesional".

 

[Dana_Jorgensen]

So the idea that DriveThru can get so many publishers into this new market? Yeah, I'll go to great length to support that. And this isn't just altruism on my part, obviously. When a company like White Wolf puts practically their whole catalog on line as electronic products, or when quality companies like Fantasy Flight, Eden, and so on put electronic versions of even their newer releases up for sale, that draws a lot more people into the potential pdf audience and helps change the minds of people who erroneously believe that all pdfs are crap simply by their very medium.

Problem is, DTRPG did NOT get so many new publishers into the PDF market. They stole almost half of them right out from under RPGnow with their forced exclusivity. Eden, Fiery Dragon, GoO, Necromancer, and your own Malhavoc Press were all RPGnow vendors. FanPro, WW and Sword & Sorcery were selling or distributing PDFs through their own websites.

I wish there was a way to get at least some people to see the bigger picture. If you like electronic products, imagine the day when whenever a publisher--any and every publisher--releases a book, it's in both electronic and print format. What DriveThru is doing is the biggest step toward that ideal in the last three years.

Actually, lulu.com was the biggest step in that direction in the last 3 years. One upload, and your product could be available in PDF, Print and CD-ROM formats (they recently dropped the CD-ROMs due to lack of sales). Don't any of you people associated with DTRPG do ANY research?

And for what it's worth, just as another data point, I've gotten the helpful folks at DriveThru to relax all cut and paste restrictions on Malhavoc products.

So, the cut'n'paste restrictions were a retailer theft of not only open use by the consumer, but vendor product control as well.

 

[LeaderDesslok]

Hmmm... was acrobat reader 6 a clean installation, or an installation over a previous version of acrobat reader?

(regarding my successful download and use of a DRM file without having DRM activated)

AR6 was a clean installation. My system went belly up a couple weeks ago and I had to reinstall the OS and numerous apps. The folders containing Adobe were purged before I reinstalled cleanly from the net.

 

[francisca]

I wish there was a way to get at least some people to see the bigger picture.

My initial knee-jerk reaction was some serious anger. My secondary (other knee) reaction was a Dan Akroyd-ish "Monte, you ignorant slut".... diatribe. (if you're not an SNL fan, you won't get it -- sorry). Here is the third pass:

Oh my. Let me inform *you* of the big picture. It's the two-headed dragon of privacy and security. Maintaining them is worth way, way more to me than the ability to get hold of RPG products in print and electronic format. When deciding where to spend my money on RPG products, this is a no-brainer. I can:
A) Purchase a product using DRM and trust that my privacy won't be abused and that an exploit won't be found for the big honkin' door that is wide open when the I launch the DRM plug-in.
B) Spend my money on something which does not expose me to these things.

When considering the ramifications of DRM and similar intrusions into my private life, I could not possibly care less what good it might do for the future of RPG publishing.

That is the big picture. It's way bigger than me, Monte Cook, White Wolf, and the RPG industry.

Again, I don't know who sold you guys on DRM as a means to secure your pdfs, but you should collectively place his/her head on a pike and use it as road sign for those who might follow.

And for what it's worth, just as another data point, I've gotten the helpful folks at DriveThru to relax all cut and paste restrictions on Malhavoc products.

Subtracting 1 from inifinty, leaves infinity. It's a nice gesture, but doesn't do anything to alleviate the problems when viewed from the big picture.

 

[Steve Wieck]

Problem is, DTRPG did NOT get so many new publishers into the PDF market.

FWIW.
Depends on how you define "into".
Look at the title list the publishers had available in electronic format before DriveThruRPG.com and now after.
White Wolf having 20-30 titles is not the same as 300 and the same is true with most of the other publishers you mentioned.

Having in print titles as well as out of print titles.
Releasing new titles electroncially simultaneously with print.

Steve