Dromus Prep Thread

[Kelleris]

If I were to walk out into the street, I would find people that are better than me in EVERY way, and people that are worse in EVERY way.

And how is that different than real life? I don't know about you, but I'm pretty sure there are people out there who just blow me out of the water. Like say Viggo Mortenson, who besides being a charismatic guy and probably quite fit also happens to be a published poet. And then there's Jo-jo the man-ape, who's pretty much worse than me in every way.

Even rolling dice means that there will be some who "rolled" really well and outclass you across the board and some who did just the opposite. All point buy means is that we have a system that makes sure all of the PCs are on par, which is no more of a stretch than saying that you all happen to be the same level.

I guess I just don't get your complaint, but point-buy is how I run my games. If there's some accommodation that you'd like I'll be willing to consider it but I reserve the right to determine stat-generation methods in my games.

 

[Kelleris]

And now an aside:

For anyone looking at/worried about the Technologist I have here a small sampling of about 20 gadgets for your perusal. There's also one ridiculously powerful greater artifact for you to drool over.

EDIT: Removed the document to move it to a central location.

 

[Chassama]

Actually, you were just arguing my point. When I made that statement, I was talking about me in real life.

Rolling the stats gives you a perfect variation. That's why it's the STANDARD method. "Point buy" is AN ALTERNATIVE method. It gives you neither the randomness of what you may have been born, nor unbalances the population of the peoples. A character created with a low wisdom and a high intellegence may still want to be a cleric. It helps that he has a high charisma, and a decent constitution, but that's not needed. With "point buy" you can't get stats like that. At least not with the point allotment you're allowing.

Sorry about the rant that seems to have a heavily offensive tone. I didn't mean it to be an attack. I was just trying make my feelings on the matter clear and couldn't find a better way to phrase it. Anyways... I don't really see any way around this little conundrum, so I'm afraid my last decision stands. I'd rather pull out than obscure my beleifs.

 

[Tux the Penguin]

Technically, Robert, you still can have a low Wisdom cleric and all since you have full control over the scores (well, up to a limit).

But I tend to agree with you that Point Buy seems a little agianst the grain, especially when you add in average HP. But the real reason that Kelsey uses Point Buy is that HE rolls very poorly. Trevor usually rolls fairly well. Then agian, Trevor usually plays a much more simple character than Kelsey, so having one or two bad stats doesn't hurt him as much.

As for my character... I'm working on it (sorta). I'll finish it eventually.

 

[Kelleris]

Rolling the stats gives you a perfect variation. That's why it's the STANDARD method. "Point buy" is AN ALTERNATIVE method.

An alternative which I am using, yes. And I still don't see why you can't just make exactly the same character stat block you had before, minus a few points. But whatever. Or if you like, just roll a block and then buy it with points. Adjust a bit to bring yourself in line with the power level of the rest of the party, and you're set.

But the real reason that Kelsey uses Point Buy is that HE rolls very poorly. Trevor usually rolls fairly well.

Ah, I see. I'm out to aggrandize the character I'm not playing and screw over you and Trevor. Right. I do like to use point buy when I play, because I can't roll a decent stat block to save my life. But I never force other people to do likewise. I'm DMing this, though, so my character isn't really an issue, now is it? Here are the real real reasons why I'm using point buy:

• It makes the players even across their characters. You, Trevor, and Brittany never seem to roll low on stats, while Richard and a few others never roll particularly well.
• It means that if I recruit players from the web at large to fill out this game (which I'm probably going to have to do, now) I don't have to either use dfferent rules for them and the "real players" or have to trust them to roll their stats.
• It lets me set the power level of the campaign much more easily than assigning a dice range, and by average probabilities (which, strangely, you guys never seem to obey) 38 points is quite a bit higher than 4d6 take the 3 highest. I want a pretty wahoo game, so that's the number I picked. According to the DMG, that's 6 points better than a "high-powered campaign" and 13 points over the NPC elite array. If you're having problems making a character with that many points, I suggest you go play a supers game. Or possibly BESM.

 

[Tux the Penguin]

Kelsey, you always ask to use point buy in a game you're playing in, so that is partially the issue.

Personally, I like the Stat Block for pick-up games since it allows everyone to generally be on the same teir power-wise. But in long term games, I think the random nature of the game tends to even out over the course of thousands of rolls.

Trevor and Brittany rolls even better than I do, but part of the reason that there characters seem to be more powerful is two fold: one, they take a single idea and push it to the limit (Trevor especially) and second, both are good at finding dump stats and the ilk.

Here's the problem with point-buy: a monk or paladin need better stats than a wizard does. Wizards need Intelligence and maybe some Dexterity thrown in. But in whole, their abilities come from their Intelligence.

Paladins, on the other hand, need a Con for the fighting, a Strength for the attacks, Charisma for their Divine Grace, and Wisdom for their casting. And that's just to cover their class abilities. Whereas a wizard can have an 18 in Intelligence and do fairly well, a Paladin is at a loss comparitively. Then agian, the class "supposedly" adjusts for this, but I don't really buy it, especially with the strict code of conduct.

I don't care if we're using Point Buy or rolling, but don't betray part of your bias Matt. You like Point Buy because it allows you to stay even when you are playing.

BTW, Robert, here's a revision that brings it down to 38 points:

Str: 18
Dex: 12 (down from 13, so no loss in the modifier)
Con: 14 (down from 15, agian no loss in modifier)
Int: 10
Wis: 15 (down from 16)*
Cha: 10 (down from 11)

*the loss of the modifier here is reduced since you cannot cast 5th level spells yet (although next level you would be able to) and you have a good will save. Go and buy a Periapt of Wisdom +2 and you'd be set.

 

[Kelleris]

I don't care if we're using Point Buy or rolling, but don't betray part of your bias Kelleris. You like Point Buy because it allows you to stay even when you are playing.

I do like to use point buy when I play, because I can't roll a decent stat block to save my life. But I never force other people to do likewise.

Does that sound like betraying my bias to you? I do like point buy when I'm playing, obviously, but the fact that I can't roll high stats has very little to do with it when I'm Dming.

But in long term games, I think the random nature of the game tends to even out over the course of thousands of rolls.

Except that your base stats never change. Lucky rolls come and lucky rolls go, but (un)lucky rolls for stats are with you forever.

Here's the problem with point-buy: a monk or paladin need better stats than a wizard does. Wizards need Intelligence and maybe some Dexterity thrown in. But in whole, their abilities come from their Intelligence.

That's a problem with multiple-ability dependancy. It has nothing to do with point buy and everything to do with the specific class. In fact, using point buy for these characters is a good thing because you can make sure you have the minimum acceptable stats you need, whereas if you rolled the stats you have to take what you can get and minimize the damage. In fact, the point buy rules make it easier to buy lots of good stats than one high stat for just this reason. You can buy two 14s and a 12 for the price of one 18.

In any case, it's probably not worth hashing out any more unless someone has a substantial objection they haven't voiced yet.

 

[Chassama]

I can see Kelleris' point. Doing the game online, he can't really trust people to roll the stats. I just have an objection to using point buy. I was under the impression the stats I rolled there would be good for this too when I made the character. I can make out the character the way you want and post it, but I won't play it. The loss of stat points isn't really what irks me either. I've played at least one character with poor stats. I had a -3 mod, two -1's, a 0, a +1, and a +4. Yes, a -3! I had a strength of 5. On the other hand I've had a character with a total +19, and it still sucked.

Oh, and Tux, that gives me 2 points to play with...

 

[Kelleris]

Well, I haven't much use for your character except as played by you, so I guess that isn't really necessary. Is there another character you'd like to play that would work with my rules?

EDIT: Alternatively, would you be willing to take a minor penalty of some sort and keep your current stats, Chassama? Half-orcs already get something of a raw deal as it is, and point-buy probably makes it slightly worse. Making up for 2-3 points of stats wouldn't require much in this case.

 

[Chassama]

That's not really the point. If you look at the last update, my modifiers are the same as the original. Well... Except my constitution. I'll need one more stat point to put it at original. On the first run, my 4th level point pushed it up. With this one it didn't. That's the only difference.

My objection is with the very basis of "point buy." I severely dislike it.