D&D (2024) Dropping armor proficiencies and using Strength as base for armor use.

[Jefe Bergenstein]

I mean, we can do away with classes, but is I think you'd get even more grief about whether it is D&D. Weapons/Armor are tied to classes. It seems they want to reinforce that, not reduce that, as seen with there not being class weapon lists, but rather classes getting simple or martial and nothing in between.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I mean, we can do away with classes

Yes

, but is I think you'd get even more grief about whether it is D&D.

I feel like the primary guiding principle for good game design at this point should be to observe all suggestions... and then ignore any that talk about something 'feeling like D&D'.

 

[ECMO3]

Nah Dex caps on armor are a good thing. They enable different character archetypes. Otherwise everyone is just wearing plate.

The current popularity of 5e is evidence that the current system is not actually a huge turn off or a substantial barrier to new players.

I don't like the current system, but I don't think it is a huge turn off. Having a different number for every armor (like 3E) would eb a turnoff I think.

I do not believe everyone will just wear plate. Aside from the cost, I know many of my characters shy away from plate do to the penalty on stealth.

Since 5E began I think I have only played 2 characters that wore plate armor. A Tempest Cleric/Fathomless warlock and a Dwarf Order Cleric/Enchantment Wizard I am playing right now. Every other character I have played (and it is well over 50 total) used armor that did not give disadvantage on stealth. That includes Paladins and Strength-based Fighters and Rangers.

 

[Blue]

STR based. Hmm, that could be painful on the ranger, two weapon fighters (who already have enough going against them) and the like. I see copious exceptions, from Dwarves to Hexblades, so it becomes not meaningful - you just take a dip or play a race if you want to avoid it. And Gauntlets of Ogre Strength become highly protective items - instead of boosting a strength based by a bit as they strive to +4 tyhemselves, inctead it allows the wearer to don any armor for big AC boosts.

I'm for Strength upgrades, but I don't think this is it.

 

[Amrûnril]

Sure, can we make casting spells Int/Wis/Cha based rather than class based?

Oh, right, we only want to give away the fighter's stuff.

In general, I think this is a valid concern. In this particular case, though, the fighter's "stuff" is having a choice between similarly effective STR-based and DEX-based options. That's something I think should be given away more braodly. The fighter can get something else to compensate.

 

[Mistwell]

Should 1D&D just drop armor category proficiency and just use MIN STR stat for all armors?

It would give more importance to Str as an ability.
having effective Dex mod to a degree for even heaviest of armors also prevents "free" dumping of dex to 8. you would want now atleast a 12 for optimum AC.
Also Dex damage effects would now be impactful to heavy armor users.

Armor name	Min Strength	AC bonus	Max Dex
Leather	10	+1	+6
Hide	12	+2	+5
Chainmail	14	+4	+3
Half-plate	16	+6	+2
Fullplate	18	+8	+1
Buckler shield	12	+1	n/a
Shield	14	+2	n/a

penalty for not having required STR for specific armor would be:
speed halved,
Disadvantage on all attacks,
Disadvantage on all STR, DEX and CON saves and checks,
All targets of your DC based abilities and spells have advantage on their saves,

Why not simply say that you cannot cast spells?
For simple reason that a simple STR drain/damage should not be complete removal of caster from battle.
This way you can still heal, buff or chose to "misty step" yourself out of the armor. Trading protection for normal spell usage.

You're over balancing them into a perfect sliding scale except for full plate, but that defeats the purpose of the concept. There should be more variation than this.

 

[Horwath]

You're over balancing them into a perfect sliding scale except for full plate, but that defeats the purpose of the concept. There should be more variation than this.

OFC, I'm making a scale what every player will aim for.

If you want to add some crap armor that will have 1 less AC bonus for same STR and max DEX for 1/4th the price, go ahead.

 

[Mistwell]

OFC, I'm making a scale what every player will aim for.

If you want to add some crap armor that will have 1 less AC bonus for same STR and max DEX for 1/4th the price, go ahead.

No I want existing armors to have more variations not be entirely a sliding scale of numbers like what you made. We're not going back to the sterility of 4e. And given what I am saying is similar to what most of the feedback you've gotten is saying, where people are talking about other variations, I'd think you'd be less cavalier in your response and listen more.

 

[Clint_L]

I think the actual type of armour should just be flavour text and mostly left for the player to decide, and all the PHB needs to do it list the AC, class of armour (light/medium/heavy) and any dex/str requirements/penalties, with some suggestions for the kinds of armour.

Example: AC18. Heavy armour, min str 13, no dex bonus, disadvantage on stealth. Typically some form of plate armour or the equivalent, with a minimum cost of X.

 

[Horwath]

No I want existing armors to have more variations not be entirely a sliding scale of numbers like what you made. We're not going back to the sterility of 4e. And given what I am saying is similar to what most of the feedback you've gotten is saying, where people are talking about other variations, I'd think you'd be less cavalier in your response and listen more.

If 5E armors had any properties that are interesting to start with, I would agree with you, but they have none.

more or less there are 3 or 4 armors in 5e:

1. studded leather
2. half plate or maybe breastplate if you care about stealth
3. full plate

everything else is level 1 or 2 filler until you buy yourself armor you want/need;

padded, leather, hide, chain shirt, scale mail, ring mail, chain mail and split are waste of space in PHB. Or at best NPC, 1/4 CR peasant armor.

for weapons, you can start with greatsword and use it from level 1 to level 20.
getting new magical is always better, but you can start with weapon that is best for you and keep it.