D&D 5E Dropping to 0 HP - Alternate Rule

[OB1]

[MENTION=20564]Blue[/MENTION] - just curious as to how often you see players drop to 0HP in combat? In my games it’s once every 2-3 sessions. I can only see this rule making things unfun if your group uses wack a mole as a regular tactic. This rule is meant to encourage play and tactics to keep PCs from getting that low in the first place.

And I already use milestones, though I also role treasure completely randomly.

 

[Blue]

[MENTION=20564]Blue[/MENTION] - just curious as to how often you see players drop to 0HP in combat? In my games it’s once every 2-3 sessions. I can only see this rule making things unfun if your group uses wack a mole as a regular tactic. This rule is meant to encourage play and tactics to keep PCs from getting that low in the first place.

And I already use milestones, though I also role treasure completely randomly.

It really varies. While over the course of the campaign it might be in the same neighborhood as your once per 2-3 sessions, these things usually don't occur evenly distributed. They tend to bunch up against fights where we come in with poor tactics, or have a run of bad dice rolls that allow someone to drop and now everyone else is trying to pick up the slack and protect them and others drop.

Really, it tends to bunch up where we might have half the party drop, some more than once, in a single rough combat (oops, we let them call for reinforcements). Or we could go for sessions without anyone dropping.

I played Storm King's Thunder at my local FLGS and with the giants high damage, to hit, and multiple melee attacks we'd have drops every other combat. And it was usually the same front-liners.

 

[OB1]

It really varies. While over the course of the campaign it might be in the same neighborhood as your once per 2-3 sessions, these things usually don't occur evenly distributed.

I played Storm King's Thunder at my local FLGS and with the giants high damage, to hit, and multiple melee attacks we'd have drops every other combat. And it was usually the same front-liners.

Yeah to that end I wouldn’t use this rule in any of the current WoTC APs and probably not for anything set in Forgotten Realms. Doesn’t fit the flavor of that setting IMO.

I’m considering pitching it to my group for an upcoming homebrew “Evil Empire” setting where the bad guys have previously won control of the world and the PCs are either rebels or scoundrels (or both) just trying to not get crushed.

 

[Li Shenron]

[MENTION=20564]Blue[/MENTION] - just curious as to how often you see players drop to 0HP in combat? In my games it’s once every 2-3 sessions. I can only see this rule making things unfun if your group uses wack a mole as a regular tactic. This rule is meant to encourage play and tactics to keep PCs from getting that low in the first place.

In our games the average has been more like one PC per encounter dropping unconscious. Meaning that for each encounter when nobody drops to 0, there is approximately another encounter when two of them drops to 0, or one of them drops to 0 twice. That's a rough average of course. When someone drops to 0, the obvious consequence is someone else casting a Cure Wounds or delivering a healing potion to them, so that they are up and fighting before the next round. In fact... I don't remember if we had any death saving throw at all with the current group!

So what would have your house rule changed for our group? Without any further changes, it would have make it more difficult for that average one PC dropping to 0 to continue the adventure*, but it would have spared a potion or spell slot per encounter (not a huge saving except at very low level).

*As noted, the first level of exhaustion has minimal impact in combat, unless you're using tactics like hiding or doing athletic/acrobatic stunts. Even the second
level (half speed) isn't that terrible in fact. But the third level is likely to have a huge impact on your capabilities.

So IMHO there wouldn't be much problems with your house rule, until the same PC has dropped to 0 three times. In my games that is actually going to happen, mainly because the levels gained (minus one) are carried over to next day, so if we have let's say 3-5 encounters per day, our PCs may have on average 1 exhaustion level at the end of the day, but that means some PC is likely to have 2 or 3 and start off next day with a debt on her shoulders.

That would suggest to me, that to be more safe I'd introduce at least the house rule that a short rest helps against exhaustion levels. Maybe not automatically, it could be that you could spend a hit dice to regain a single level of exhaustion instead of healing HP damage.

But in your case, if one PC drops to 0 every 2-3 sessions (not encounters!), I don't think you even need to worry that much

 

[Blue]

So IMHO there wouldn't be much problems with your house rule, until the same PC has dropped to 0 three times.

You had a longer, nuanced post, but I needed to comment on this specific part. Because it implies that you never do anything outside of combat that requires a roll. Because every, every, EVERY one of those ability/skill rolls made outside combat has disadvantage with even a single level of exhaustion.

And with how slow exhaustion goes away, it can last for the entire adventure.

 

[Li Shenron]

You had a longer, nuanced post, but I needed to comment on this specific part. Because it implies that you never do anything outside of combat that requires a roll. Because every, every, EVERY one of those ability/skill rolls made outside combat has disadvantage with even a single level of exhaustion.

And with how slow exhaustion goes away, it can last for the entire adventure.

Yes, I was talking only about combat.

It's quite an oddity that the default exhaustion rules bestow disadvantage on ability checks first, considering how they include social and knowledge skills. One would assume that being tired would first hinder the most strenuous activities such as fighting. OTOH it could also be said that in combat the adrenaline pump makes you overcome mild tiredness better.

I just think that with the exhaustion rules they went for a design which supposedly hit you first on what is considered less valuable in a gamist point of view (being uneffective in combat maybe feels worse to more people).

Truth is... IMHO the default exhaustion rules are almost never used. Exhaustion is caused by forced march, going without food or water, all of which never happen in the majority of games. Still, in games when they happen, you still need to exceed a limit to trigger exhaustion, and even after the limit it's not always automatic. All failed, you gain ONE exhaustion level... so basically you all go to sleep and tomorrow you're good to go.

There is some Barbarian ability however that causes exhaustion. That certainly must have occurred a lot more frequently. Unfortunately I have yet to see a Berserker in play so I don't know how others deal with it. My guess is that they just stop at the first exhaustion level most of the times.

All this just to say that perhaps the problem is in the current order of exhaustion levels effects. I would switch the first 2 levels, or move the ability disadvantage to 3rd.

 

[OB1]

Yes, I was talking only about combat.

It's quite an oddity that the default exhaustion rules bestow disadvantage on ability checks first, considering how they include social and knowledge skills. One would assume that being tired would first hinder the most strenuous activities such as fighting. OTOH it could also be said that in combat the adrenaline pump makes you overcome mild tiredness better.

All this just to say that perhaps the problem is in the current order of exhaustion levels effects. I would switch the first 2 levels, or move the ability disadvantage to 3rd.

I've been thinking about this issue in regards to this house rule as well, and agree it's kind of weird. I'm leaning towards splitting up the ability disadvantage to hit Str/Dex/Con first and then Int/Wis/Cha later. Here is a new look at where I am with the refined rule with the new exhaustion levels. I may need to get rid of exhaustion level 6.

Alternate Rule - Dropping to 0 HP
This rule completely replaces the rules for dropping to 0 HP as presented in the PHB

Your HP can never be lower than 0

Whenever you drop to 0HP, make a Death Saving Throw. On a failure, gain 1 level of Exhaustion.

While at 0 HP, you make an additional Death Saving Throw when you take damage, you take an action, or you take a reaction. On a failed save, you gain 1 level of exhaustion.

If you suffer a critical hit while at 0 HP, you automatically gain one level of exhaustion and also make a Death Saving Throw, gaining another level of exhaustion on a failure.

The DC for a Death Saving Throw is 10 or 1/2 the damage taken from the triggering attack, whichever is higher. You may add your Con modifier to the roll.

Alternate Exhaustion Levels

1 - You have disadvantage on Str/Dex/Con ability Checks
2 - Your speed is reduced by half
3 - You have disadvantage on Attack Rolls and Saving Throws
4 - You have disadvantage on Int/Wis/Cha ability Checks
5 - Hit Point Maximum Halved
6 - Speed Reduced to 0
7 - Unconscious - Additionally, you make a death saving throw every minute if at 0 HP, or every hour if at 1 or more HP.
8 - Death

 

[Ashrym]

The goal here is to create a fun system that presents interesting choices for the players while making the line between 1HP and 0 HP a little blurrier and adding longer lasting consequences for dropping to 0 HP.

Have you tried the lingering injuries table?