D&D 5E Dropping to 0 HP - House Rule Variant

[Steampunkette]

That's not meaningfully different than being at 1 hp and waiting to be at 0 hp in a death at 0hp game

Maybe don't assume those you talk to are such idiots they don't understand rise over run?

I've demonstrated that my position doesn't do what you claim. So believe what you want.

Rise over run in this situation is an allegory the same way cliffs were.

And your position is that it doesn't matter how steep the incline is, they're exactly the same for the purposes of the phrase "Death Spiral"

Which is why I consider it to be so broad as to be meaningless.

 

[Steampunkette]

Exhaustion applied when you hit 0hp:

Death Spiral:

Also, seriously, I hope the person living in that second house gets a real and safe ramp installed 'cause holy crap my heart breaks on seeing that...

 

[FrogReaver]

And your position is that it doesn't matter how steep the incline is, they're exactly the same for the purposes of the phrase "Death Spiral"

Which is why I consider it to be so broad as to be meaningless.

There are plenty of mechanics that don't cause Death spirals. Death at 0 being the most trivial. That's why it makes no sense why you refer to this differentiation as meaningless.

 

[Steampunkette]

There are plenty of mechanics that don't cause Death spirals. Death at 0 being the most trivial. That's why it makes no sense why you refer to this differentiation as meaningless.

Because like Rise over Run it's a matter of Degrees.

A Death Spiral describes something sharp and fast. Like that terrible makeshift ramp image I posted. It hastens your journey down to 0hp the entire way, like a ramp at too steep an angle for it's run. You pick up speed as you go and VOOM. Off you go.

Where what I've suggested applies after you've hit the bottom, already. Will it make it harder to get back up? Sure. But it didn't hasten you to the end, you got there on your own.

You see no difference between these two. Because there's no degrees in your definition. No understanding of scale or nuance. It's all exactly the same.

And those two ramps are both Death Spirals.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

Not sure if this helps the OP, but maybe provides some food for thought...

In our 5e West Marches-Style Curse of Strahd campaign, death save failures don't reset if healed via magic. Death save failures only reset when:

• the PC makes three successful death saves
• the PC rolls a nat 20 on a death save
• the PC is stabilized with a healer's kit
• the PC takes a long rest

 

[Steampunkette]

Not sure if this helps the OP, but maybe provides some food for thought...

In our 5e West Marches-Style Curse of Strahd campaign, death save failures don't reset if healed via magic. Death save failures only reset when:

• the PC makes three successful death saves
• the PC rolls a nat 20 on a death save
• the PC is stabilized with a healer's kit
• the PC takes a long rest

... oh I -like- that. I -really- like that.

I might change it from "Stabilized" to "Treated or Stabilized" so people can reset death saves out of combat without a long rest...

But I -really- like that.

 

[Blue]

Goal: Provide a disincentive to players to allow themselves to drop to 0 HP that doesn't result in a death spiral or 5MWD. Encourage players to avoid unnecessary combat and retreat from combats going poorly to regroup and attempt another direction to achieve their goal. Increase the drama and tension of decision making in a difficult combat that the players don't want to retreat from.

Proposed House Rule:

• When you drop to 0 HP, you fall unconscious and begin making death saving throws as normal.
• Whenever you regain HP from 0 the following happens:
  • 0 Failed Death Saving Throws - You regain HP, but don't regain consciousness for 1 minute
  • 1 Failed Death Saving Throw - You regain HP, but don't regain consciousness for 10 minutes
  • 2 Failed Death Saving Throws - You regain HP, but don't regain consciousness for 1 hour (this time period does not count as a short rest)
• If you are reduced to 0 HP during this period of unconsciousness, your death saves are reset and your period of unconsciousness restarts once you gain HP, lasting for a period of time based on your highest failed death save count since being conscious (so no healing someone to 1 hp with 2 death saves, then knocking them down to 0 and healing them again to get the 1 min time period)
• The period of unconsciousness ends early if you are healed to full hit points or if a spell such as Greater Restoration is cast on you.
• This period of unconsciousness also occurs when being brought back from the dead.

Thoughts?

Initial thoughts before I read other replies which will impact my thinking.

This addresses the whack-a-mole healing problem that many have without introducing the problem of long term consequences on those who go down, since it's often a failure of the team as a whole, plus roles like tank are supposed to go in there and get hit and end up penalizing them for fulfilling a party support role, which is contrary to how I like to play. So this is good from that aspect. In some ways it mimics Champions where how far down your STUN went determines when you get recoveries, including getting to "GM's Option" which we always refered to as taking a trip to Optionland - you weren't getting back from there quickly.

There's small issue that someone reduced to 0 will likely need a short rest, so an hour down will often result in back-to-back short rests for the party. Personally I'd have that if the body is unmoving and cared for the time unconscious count as part of a rest just to keep the party in sync. That's more of a practical meta matter than an in-game result.

I do have a concern which is that the amount of wall clock time that 10 minutes or 1 hour of game time can vary greatly. It could be passed in a sentence, or it could be a full session (or more) full of combat if the party is in the midst of a time-restricted issue. As such it can penalize the player, by making them sit out of the fun, for periods that can get up to punitive. Especially when you consider that if they die they could be back right after the combat with a Revivify, spending only in-game resources as opposed to impeding player fun. Normally magical healing is the way around this, but with that resource already being spent, asking for additional resources from likely the same character isn't fair - they already contributed to bringing that one up, it shouldn't all be on them.

So, the issue right now is barring the player from having fun for an extended period - say an hour while there's another combat as an average - that I would want to see be addressed.

Again, this is initial thoughts, it might already be talked about in the thread.

 

[FrogReaver]

Because like Rise over Run it's a matter of Degrees.

A Death Spiral describes something sharp and fast. Like that terrible makeshift ramp image I posted. It hastens your journey down to 0hp the entire way, like a ramp at too steep an angle for it's run. You pick up speed as you go and VOOM. Off you go.

There's nothing in the term 'death spiral' that describes how fast or abrupt it needs to occur.

Where what I've suggested applies after you've hit the bottom, already. Will it make it harder to get back up? Sure. But it didn't hasten you to the end, you got there on your own.

hitting 0 hp isn't bottom, death is.

You see no difference between these two. Because there's no degrees in your definition. No understanding of scale or nuance. It's all exactly the same.

And those two ramps are both Death Spirals.

I've said it before and will again. You can have faster and slower death spirals. So I have degrees.

 

[Blue]

I had many of your same issues and what we did was this:

• Instead of falling unconscious when your HP reaches 0 you now will remain conscious and can take actions normally.
• The first time you are reduced to 0 HP you will gain 1 level of Exhaustion at the end of the fight
• Anytime you would gain a level of Exhaustion at the end of the fight and are reduced to 0 or are at 0 and would take damage you must make a death saving throw, the DC is 5 plus the damage delt, on a success you do not mark a failed save, a failed save aginst a critical hit counts as two failed saving throws. A roll of a natural 20 is always a success.
• While you are at 0 HP a monster may decide to knock you unconscious instead of dealing damage, you make a CON saving throw vs the damage dealt, on a success you stay conscious, a faild save renders you unconscious.

I find that Exhaustion penalizes that character at everything except combat for the rest of the day. Because that's what the first level of exhaustion does by granting disadvantage on all ability check - penalizes the character at the primary way they mechanically interact with every non-combat pillar of the game.

I don't understand why so many people feel that the appropriate penalty for going down is leaving your combat ability basically untouched but making the character suck at everything else for the rest of the day. Can you explain why you like that?

 

[Asisreo]

I find that Exhaustion penalizes that character at everything except combat for the rest of the day. Because that's what the first level of exhaustion does by granting disadvantage on all ability check - penalizes the character at the primary way they mechanically interact with every non-combat pillar of the game.

I don't understand why so many people feel that the appropriate penalty for going down is leaving your combat ability basically untouched but making the character suck at everything else for the rest of the day. Can you explain why you like that?

If I were trying to make the game more deadly by changing the overall mechanics (which I do still highly advise caution with. Seriously, a minority of players actually find it fun to change the rules away from their favor), I've actually used the optional rules in tandem with some rules of my own.

* If you take damage, you roll on the Massive Injury table regardless of the damage.

* Healing Spells only work once a day.

* No spell can heal conditions/diseases/poisons natively unless the effects were magical themselves.

* All characters take Damage over Time when they get hit based on the initial damage. Specifically, they take the original damage dice worth of damage at the start of their turn, and yes this includes when they go down.

Warning: These houserules were absolutely brutal in the short campaign I ran them on. Not for the players who enjoy combat as each combat with some of the least deadly enemies could easily become a TPK. It was fun for them because it was basically an agreement to not engage in combat.

Again, highly do not suggest rules like these unless you are absolutely certain you can't make D&D harder through encounter design and strategy.