D&D General Drow & Orcs Removed from the Monster Manual

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And I go back to someone being part of a community does not necessarily speak for the whole community.
I Googled Jewish complaints about lich phylactery and found a bunch of Jews saying exactly what I am saying. And a few non-jews saying it was antisemitic.

This just isn't a thing in the Jewish community. There might be a few outliers, but it's not offensive to Jews in general.
 

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Are you Jewish? If so, do you represent all Jewish people?

If you personally do not find the use of phylactery offensive, then no Jewish people do? Or since not all Jewish people do, it doesn't matter?

Multiple entertainment companies producing fantasy media and games HAVE listened and HAVE removed the use of the word.

So sorry that offends you.
People aren’t offended I think as much as they are tired of this kind of effort to purge the language and content of games for potential issues. I think what people are missing is this is a very particular way of viewing media. Most people arent taking a fine tooth comb like this and ask for changes. I think to a lot of people it feels like there is this search for hidden problems you can only see with a very narrow lens. And it is part of a constant ongoing effort that seems to have the overall effect of making things less interesting and more bland. But it also doesn’t even appear to be addressing a problem that genuinely existed.

Certainly there may be Jewish people who are offended. But we have had lots of Jewish posters weigh in here saying they don’t think it is a problem. Personally their sentiment seems to reflect what I hear from Jewish gamers. But no group is monolithic. I suspect people who take issue are outliers. I’ve used this example before but when I was a kid my grandfather used to get Italian American magazine and they were constantly complaining about mafia media promoting negative stereotypes about Italians. But most Italian Americans loved mafia media. Because gangsters are cool. It would have been a shame if directors paid attention to that kind of concern because it really would have filed the edges down on a lot of great shows and movies. That is where I think a lot of posters who are reacting to this stuff are coming from
 

People aren’t offended I think as much as they are tired of this kind of effort to purge the language and content of games for potential issues. I think what people are missing is this is a very particular way of viewing media. Most people arent taking a fine tooth comb like this and ask for changes. I think to a lot of people it feels like there is this search for hidden problems you can only see with a very narrow lens. And it is part of a constant ongoing effort that seems to have the overall effect of making things less interesting and more bland. But it also doesn’t even appear to be addressing a problem that genuinely existed.

Certainly there may be Jewish people who are offended. But we have had lots of Jewish posters weigh in here saying they don’t think it is a problem. Personally their sentiment seems to reflect what I hear from Jewish gamers. But no group is monolithic. I suspect people who take issue are outliers. I’ve used this example before but when I was a kid my grandfather used to get Italian American magazine and they were constantly complaining about mafia media promoting negative stereotypes about Italians. But most Italian Americans loved mafia media. Because gangsters are cool. It would have been a shame if directors paid attention to that kind of concern because it really would have filed the edges down on a lot of great shows and movies. That is where I think a lot of posters who are reacting to this stuff are coming from
So sorry you are tired.

So sorry WotC and other companies have listened to folks and removed problematic terms and concepts.

You suspect Jewish and non-Jewish folks who are offended (severely or mildly) are outliers. Suspect.

Okay. I'm tired too. Of folks pushing back against reasonable, progressive change.
 

So sorry you are tired.

So sorry WotC and other companies have listened to folks and removed problematic terms and concepts.

You suspect Jewish and non-Jewish folks who are offended (severely or mildly) are outliers. Suspect.

I would say more than suspect. It seems to be confirmed by most people I talk to

Okay. I'm tired too. Of folks pushing back against reasonable, progressive change.

I don't think these changes are very progressive. I think they are regressive. They aren't actually improving anything and they are making people less comfortable with one another, not more
 

So sorry you are tired.

I accept your apology :)

So sorry WotC and other companies have listened to folks and removed problematic terms and concepts.

They can do what they want. Like I said, I still bought the books. I just think this mindset isn't making anything better, and I think problems are being identified that aren't actual problems
 

I don't criticize WotC or others for making the change as it isn't always easy to decide what should be changed. And it's not like WotC wants any static, right? I think this was an overcorrection, but at least they're trying.
Even granting for the sake of argument that it may be an overcorrection...once the connection has been made and broadly discussed, it just isn't a hill worth dying on for a publicly traded company.
 

People aren’t offended I think as much as they are tired of this kind of effort to purge the language and content of games for potential issues. I think what people are missing is this is a very particular way of viewing media. Most people arent taking a fine tooth comb like this and ask for changes. I think to a lot of people it feels like there is this search for hidden problems you can only see with a very narrow lens. And it is part of a constant ongoing effort that seems to have the overall effect of making things less interesting and more bland. But it also doesn’t even appear to be addressing a problem that genuinely existed.

Certainly there may be Jewish people who are offended. But we have had lots of Jewish posters weigh in here saying they don’t think it is a problem. Personally their sentiment seems to reflect what I hear from Jewish gamers. But no group is monolithic. I suspect people who take issue are outliers. I’ve used this example before but when I was a kid my grandfather used to get Italian American magazine and they were constantly complaining about mafia media promoting negative stereotypes about Italians. But most Italian Americans loved mafia media. Because gangsters are cool. It would have been a shame if directors paid attention to that kind of concern because it really would have filed the edges down on a lot of great shows and movies. That is where I think a lot of posters who are reacting to this stuff are coming from

Asked this before, but does it need to be a problem for Jewish people to be a problem? Maybe it is being too sensitive, but I can say that as a non-jew the idea that I could be using a term for a Jewish holy artifact or practice, and connecting it to an undead serial killer monster, which is very reminiscent of hateful things said of jewish people and their practice... leaves a sour taste in my mouth. I don't like that connection. I'm not offended on behalf of them, they say it is fine, good for them... but I'm still not 100% blase about this.

And changing the name of the amulet, receptacle whatever you want to call it doesn't have to mean a loss of flavor. It could lead to an INCREASE in connections and flavor. Okay, the name they chose was pretty on the nose. But Liches are based on Koshchei, at least in part, so we could look there. His spell that gave him immortality might have been inspired by Turkish amulets in the shape of eggs. So... what if we called it that? Now instead of losing flavor, we've gained it, and made a connection to a cool mythological figure.

Yes, I know they didn't do that. They gave it a very generic name that can fit into any possible cultural setting, but instead of constantly demanding people prove if anyone was offended enough to make the change worthwhile (and how could you ever measure if any group is "offended enough") we could use this as an opportunity to play with ideas. Maybe Soul Cage is the generic name, but a lich from a culture based loosely on ancient egypt might refer to his as a Canopic Jar, referencing the mummification process. There is a chance to make something BETTER, instead of just going on about how every change is always for the worst and the first idea anyone had for something was clearly the best possible version of that idea.
 

Even if one were to grant that it is a limited issue...why on Earth should WotC decide to die on this particular hill? What do they gain by insisting on maintaining a link between blood-eatijg ritualistic serial killer Wizards and Jews?

Literally, why?
There is no hill to die upon…I don’t think
Even granting for the sake of argument that it may be an overcorrection...once the connection has been made and broadly discussed, it just isn't a hill worth dying on for a publicly traded company.
this is a market decision? Lots of people are offended by this and won’t buy due to the same?

I don’t “buy” that conclusion.
 

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