DrSpunj's Class Balance Spreadsheet

DrSpunj · May 13, 2004

I reworked my Total Spells spreadsheet to be completely AU compatible for the PbP game I'm in. I renamed it Total AU Spells just to keep it separate from the one I plan on using in this thread. I thought I'd post the link here here in case anyone was interested in it.

Thanks.

DrSpunj

ouini · May 13, 2004

DrSpunj said:
It definitely needs some rewording in places for clarification...

Yeah, but it's really hard to succinctly describe the "memorize a bunch of spells, then cast from them" mechanic in AU. I've been thinking about it, and will wait to describe it until I have some good verbage. Thanks for looking at it.

I tried to use your refinement for a simpler number of martial weapon groups (which I agree, makes better sense). As for exotic weapons, is there a system we've discussed which grants proficiency in more than one exotic weapon at a time? How does that work?

So I tagged on a 2nd+ level explanation sheet, and tried recreating the Bard to compare to core on the last page. It's pretty close. After 5 levels, he's in a dead-heat as far as spells go (a touch ahead), has gained all his feats except Countersong (some feats a level late).

http://www.sharemation.com/ouini/draft1n2.rtf

It seems sharemation doesn't work ... at least not this morning. Here's an alternate site:
http://www.leepfrog.com/~kwelsch/wanderers/draft1n2.rtf

DrSpunj · May 14, 2004

ouini said:
I tried to use your refinement for a simpler number of martial weapon groups (which I agree, makes better sense). As for exotic weapons, is there a system we've discussed which grants proficiency in more than one exotic weapon at a time? How does that work?

Sorry if I wasn't clear before. Without going back and looking at exactly what I had in that post, the Unearthed Arcana variant I was basing those groups off of only has two Exotic Weapon Feats. They are simply Exotic Weapons and Exotic Double Weapons. They essentially add exotic weapon proficiencies to any other Weapon Group that you already know, essentially extended which weapons are included in that group.

For instance, if you have both the Flails & Chains weapon group and the Axes weapon group, and then picked up the Exotic Weapon group (you only take it once) it would give you proficiency in Dwarven Waraxe (1-handed use) for Axes and add these weapons to your Flail & Chain group: chain-and-dagger, scourge, spiked chain, three-section staff, whip & whip-dagger.

Exotic Double Weapons works similarly, but if the ends of the double weapon are different you may need two Weapon Groups to become proficient with the weapon. For instance, the Dwarven Urgrosh has an axe head and a spear head. To be proficient in its use you'd need to take 3 Weapon Groups: Axes, Polearms/Spears/Lances, and Exotic Double Weapons. If you don't have all three you aren't proficient with the Dwarven Urgrosh (unless you're a Dwarf, in which case I believe you could skip the Exotic Double Weapon group because of racial familiarity in 3.5). Just to be complete, if you did take those three groups you'd also pick up proficiency with the Orc Double Axe (though it only requires Axes & Exotic Double Weapons, of course).

I'll take a look at your 2nd page. Thanks for working on it.

DrSpunj

SSquirrel · May 14, 2004

ouini said:
Yeah, but it's really hard to succinctly describe the "memorize a bunch of spells, then cast from them" mechanic in AU. I've been thinking about it, and will wait to describe it until I have some good verbage. Thanks for looking at it.

Well if this is for a group of people already familiar with D&D (ie no newbies) you can simply say that after readying your spells (like a wizard) you then keep those same spells until you spend an hour to swap any out. No rememorization every day is needed. Once your spells of choice are readied, you function rather like a sorceror.

Hagen

ouini · May 14, 2004

DrSpunj said:
...the Unearthed Arcana variant I was basing those groups off of only has two Exotic Weapon Feats.

That sounds keen. I think I'll run with it.

SSquirrel said:
...you can simply say that after readying your spells (like a wizard) you then keep those same spells until you spend an hour to swap any out. No rememorization every day is needed. Once your spells of choice are readied, you function rather like a sorceror.

They're familiar, not newbies. But the devil is in the details. I understood exactly what you were trying to say, but if I tell them to memorize like a Wizard, they'll memorize three burning hands spells and a sleep spell. If I tell them to keep spells until they swap, they may assume I mean "until I swap *or cast* them". Little things like that.

There should be a very simple and succinct, uncomplicated, two or three bulleted sentences which describe it concisely and understandably. It's just a matter of sitting down and figuring it out.

SSquirrel · May 15, 2004

ouini said:
I understood exactly what you were trying to say, but if I tell them to memorize like a Wizard, they'll memorize three burning hands spells and a sleep spell. If I tell them to keep spells until they swap, they may assume I mean "until I swap *or cast* them". Little things like that.

Hmm...Spells readied are the number of DIFFERENT spells you can know at once. When cast they are not forgotten, as the concept of forgetting something you know as solidly as a caster does his spells is ridiculous. However, at this level, you only have enough storage space for the number of spells each day shown on the chart. Pick the ones you are interested in and want t be able to cast. If you need to change one later you can, provided you have an hour you can study to swap it out.

Not quite as succinct, but maybe I'm heading in teh right direction. Tweak all this together and bludgeon the damned thing. Heck, I'm just in West Branch....I could CALL when you were gaming and explain it to them heh.

Hagen

ouini · May 17, 2004

Thanks, Slappy. I used some of your wordage in the rewrite.
http://www.leepfrog.com/~kwelsch/wanderers/draft1n2.rtf

And thanks, DrSpunj, for the feedback and the spell list you provided off-line. It looks like it will be a piece of cake to give players who don't own AU their own "spell books"

SSquirrel · May 17, 2004

ouini said:
Thanks, Slappy. I used some of your wordage in the rewrite.
http://www.leepfrog.com/~kwelsch/wanderers/draft1n2.rtf

And thanks, DrSpunj, for the feedback and the spell list you provided off-line. It looks like it will be a piece of cake to give players who don't own AU their own "spell books"

Looks good to me. Wording seems much better on explaining how spells are readied etc, some of the wordingeven seemed familiar. *wink*

I still have to actually read the rest of that file Spunj had to send me thet explains that alternate style of AU magic. I got to read his intro paragraphs one day and then had to leave and have been busy since *grin* That will probably help make a couple of things from your document make more sense to me. Nothing major, just stuff related to it.

Hagen

DrSpunj · May 20, 2004

Because I've been working on wrapping
Up my current campaign, I haven't been able to devote
Much time to this lately. When I get the chance I
Plan on trying to build some of the Core & AU Classes with ouini's system
!

Thanks.

DrSpunj