Druids too powerful?

[Dark Dragon]

Hi,

during the last session, the party (level 17) encountered an iron golem (a special one: more hp + wounding ability + keen weapons). The wizards threw some spells at the creature but it wasn't harmed at all. The paladin and the cleric attacked it with swords (which are not adamantine weapons...), but the damage done was nearly nothing.
The druid (my PC) summoned two dire bears (changing a level 8 spell to SNA VIII), wild shaped into a dire bear and cast Animal Growth on himself and the bears...He attacked the golem, grappled it easily, pulled it into position so that the two other bears could attack it as well, and within three or four rounds the thing was a pile of metal...
I was a bit surprised that a level 17 druid can defeat an iron golem so easily by using wild shape and Animal Growth.

What do you think?

 

[Majere]

Ok
1) The construct didnt have damage reduction ?
2) Fear the power of grapple to incapacitate

That said, casting enlarge person on a fighter probably makes him better at grappling.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I think that you can't determine whether something is balanced based upon the outcome of a single combat situation. I also think that tactics can go a very long way of defeating monsters (and reversely, can make gritters worth their CR and more).

 

[Darklone]

Well... yeah, druids plus animal growth rock. Defeated some golems in a similar way with a level 12 druid. (Several castings of Animal growth)

 

[Dark Dragon]

Ok
1) The construct didnt have damage reduction ?

It did: 15/adamantine. AC was 36, IIRC. The druid (buffed with Greater Magic Fang (+1 on all attacks), Haste, Bear's Heart) dealt 2d6+17 damage per claw and 4d6+8 per bite, attack bonus was 29 (claw) and 24 (bite), grapple was +37 (STR 43, BAB +12, size H, GMF). The summoned bears were a bit weaker due to lower BAB and missing GMF.

2) Fear the power of grapple to incapacitate

That said, casting enlarge person on a fighter probably makes him better at grappling.

Not necessarily. It's quite difficult to give a fighter STR 43 AND boost him to huge size AND give him improved grapple AND give him two attacks with the same bonus (29 in my case).

I think that you can't determine whether something is balanced based upon the outcome of a single combat situation. I also think that tactics can go a very long way of defeating monsters (and reversely, can make gritters worth their CR and more).

Agreed. But it's a very easy combo that lets a fighter pale in melee combat. Add two druidic buff spells to that combo (Nature's Favor, Nature's Avatar and you're close to a smack down. If the opponent is not incorporeal and is tossing Greater Dispellings around, he won't hold his ground a druid. And Improved Grab sucks if you're on the wrong side.

 

[Mystery Man]

Well... yeah, druids plus animal growth rock. Defeated some golems in a similar way with a level 12 druid. (Several castings of Animal growth)

I run a campaign that has a L10 druid with a dire ape companion, with animal growth this baby has a 15' space and can do upwards of 100 points of damage in a round (this is of course if he hits with everything). Pretty awesome.

Problem with animals is they have such weak saves. That big 'ol dire ape just has to fail a will save and he's my plaything for a time.

 

[buzzard]

The key aspect to your success was the grapple. Without it you get chewed up since your AC as an animal generally sucks. While in certain cirumstances a Druid can kick butt, their lousy AC generally makes being a frontline fighter too dangerous.

buzzard

 

[Belen]

I thought Animal Growth could only be used on animals. A wildshaped druid is not an animal, but rather, a magical beast. Therefore, animal growth should not work on the druid personally.

 

[Dark Dragon]

The key aspect to your success was the grapple. Without it you get chewed up since your AC as an animal generally sucks. While in certain cirumstances a Druid can kick butt, their lousy AC generally makes being a frontline fighter too dangerous.

buzzard

Right. But imagine a sword- (or axe) wielding fighter attacked by an animal-growthed dire bear druid. The poor fighter is grappled on the first attack in most cases. His only choice are light weapons (dagger or short sword), which don't deal much damage. The fighter's AC is nearly worthless against the druid (see above).
Arcane casters won't last against the druid long (low HP), and escape via spells could be negated by a successful grapple check (see PHB).
There's no reason for a wild shaped druid not to use Improved grab: He still threatens adjacent squares, retains his DEX-Bonus and may direct remaining attacks against other foes. He can separate a grappled foe from others by pulling him away and deal damage in one round. Animal Growth increases success of a grapple by increasing strength and size.
If the druid is attacked by three or more foes, he's in trouble when attacked with magic weapons (otherwise, DR 10/magic helps a lot).

I thought Animal Growth could only be used on animals. A wildshaped druid is not an animal, but rather, a magical beast. Therefore, animal growth should not work on the druid personally.

Nope. Wild shape refers to Polymorph which states that the caster type changes accordingly to the chosen form (which is animal type for the druid).

 

[Belen]

Actually, the druid would become type "magical beast" because they have an int. score more than 2. In the MM, it specifically states that an animal cannot have more than a 2 intelligence.

Therefore, it is impossible to animal growth a druid using wild shape because the druid is a magical beast and not an animal, unless said Druid wishes to drop their intelligence to a 2.

Dave