Dual Strike

[The Souljourner]

Probably done many times before, but I haven't seen it, so here goes.

DUAL STRIKE
Prerequisites: Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Two Weapon Fighting, BAB +6, Dex 17
You strike with two weapons as one.
Benefit: When using the attack action to make a single melee attack as a standard action, when taking an attack of opportunity, or when attacking at the end of a charge, you may attack with two weapons instead of just one. You make one attack roll at -4 to hit and apply it to both weapons (not including any other modifiers, such as the +2 to hit when charging). Any precision-based damage, such as sneak attack or critical hits (if applicable), apply to only one of the weapons.


I based this off manyshot, but made it a little more widely applicable, based on the fact that in general, two weapon fighting sucks, and adding yet *another* feat onto this already feat-heavy fighting style means that it ought to be pretty awesome.

Please let me know what you think.

-The Souljourner

 

[gamecat]

Probably done many times before, but I haven't seen it, so here goes.

DUAL STRIKE
Prerequisites: Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Two Weapon Fighting, BAB +6, Dex 17
You strike with two weapons as one.
Benefit: When using the attack action to make a single melee attack as a standard action, when taking an attack of opportunity, or when attacking at the end of a charge, you may attack with two weapons instead of just one. You make one attack roll at -4 to hit and apply it to both weapons (not including any other modifiers, such as the +2 to hit when charging). Any precision-based damage, such as sneak attack or critical hits (if applicable), apply to only one of the weapons.


I based this off manyshot, but made it a little more widely applicable, based on the fact that in general, two weapon fighting sucks, and adding yet *another* feat onto this already feat-heavy fighting style means that it ought to be pretty awesome.

Please let me know what you think.

-The Souljourner

could this be used with a double weapon?

 

[The Souljourner]

Good question, I hadn't thought of that. I suppose, though the image I had in my head wouldn't support it. What I was thinking of was the thing you see in martial arts movies and stuff, where the guy plunges his two swords into an enemy with a single thrust... doing this with a double weapon would require more than a single motion, you'd have to actually swing both ends around.... Balance-wise, I think it would be fine, but from an in-game perspective, it wouldn't make much sense. Double weapon fighters can already make single attacks with their weapon as a two handed weapon, so that helps go a long way to reducing the problem of single attacks being weak. *shrug*

I guess I would say no.

-The Souljourner

 

[AeroDm]

My initial inclination was to say it was too powerful. But I actually think it comes out pretty well and like it a lot. It sort of equalizes the playing field from dual-wielding vs two-handed weapons as they generally deal 2x damage, plus it sets them back another feat.

I'd like to see someone run the math before I make any real judgements, but I really like the flavor of the feat. Quality feat.

 

[The Souljourner]

It does seem pretty powerful, until you realize that two handed wielding guys have spent three fewer feats, and get 2x power attack bonuses, plus they only have to buy one magic weapon vs. the dual wielder's two. And given that, for most fighter types, their weapon is the most expensive piece of equipment they own, that's a pretty big deal.

Now, here's the thing - the feat imposes a -4 to hit, so already the two handed fighter could be power attacking for -4/+8 and still have the same chance to hit.

Let's assume an 8th level fighter here, wielding a greatsword vs. wielding a pair of shortswords (you could go longsword & shortsword, but with specialization, the shortsword is better for the main hand as well, unless you want to spend 4 feats on focus/specialization, which a dual wielder *really* can't afford to do).

So, assume 16 strength to start, with a +2 magic item is 18 strength, for a nice, easy to calculate +4 strength bonus.

Greatsword is +2, shortswords are +2 and +1 (the 2000gp extra can be taken out of the dual wielder's AC... already he's down 1 damage and 1 AC).

(damage bonuses are specialization, magic, strength, power attack)
Greatsword wielder does 2d6+2+2+6+8 = 25 damage average with +11 to hit (8 + 2 + 1 + 4 - 4)

Dual wielder does 1d6 + 2 + 2 + 4 + 0 + 1d6 + 2 + 1 + 2 + 0 = 20 damage on average with +11 and +10 to hit (8 + 2 (or 1) + 1 + 4 - 4)

Granted, without power attack, the dual wielder does 3 more damage, but the greatsword wielder has +4 to hit. Sounds pretty fair to me.

-The Souljourner

 

[Scion]

I dont think it would overpower it even if you added on, 'if at least one of the weapons qualifies for use with power attack then use power attack as though you were holding a 2 handed weapon.' Depends on just how things are being added though I guess.

If you are useing two long swords and power attack for 1 do you already get 2 extra points of damage?

If so then the line I proposed is unnecissary, otherwise I think it could (or even should, flavorwise) be added.

 

[The Souljourner]

Yeah, if you're wielding two longswords, then power attacking for 1 will give you +2 to damage in the end (1 for each longsword). However, you're also taking -4 to hit (which is -2 more than standard TWF penalties).

I really wish that they had made two weapon fighting with two light weapons available with no penalties using no feats, and only require feats if you're using one handed weapons (and then you'd get the -2 to hit). That would be more in keeping with the damage/feat balance set by two handed weapons, especially now that power attack is x2 for two handed weapons, and not even usable with light weapons.

-The Souljourner