Duergar: I'm shocked - a flavour change I really like!

[darkbard]

If memory serves, derro are the insane offspring of dwarves and humans. Or at least thus was their origin; I suspect they now breed true (unlike the Darksun muls, who, though human-dwarf hybrids, are sterile).

 

[Shroomy]

Probably not existing any more. I honestly forget whether they even got a 3e writeup.

I'm kind of amused by the idea of a race of dwarves with racial Enlarge Person though.

Yeah, they appear in the MM and the XPH. There is also a decent ecology article that appeared in Dragon.

 

[Nahat Anoj]

So instead of making them Drow of the Dwarves, they made them tieflings of the dwarves.

Well, if they have different powers and a different backstory, that's different enough for me. I suspect any time devils are involved similar corruption and taint happens.

This also makes me wonder, "Well, what the hell are derro?"[/QUOTE]
Dwarves corrupted by demons/the far realm?

 

[Rechan]

Alright. Not being snarky. Its hard. Is this your homebrew?

No.

The history of the Drow as I recall is that they were just elves, and they backed the wrong dude (Lolth), betrayed the elves. Then Corellan turned them all black, to reflect the darkness of their heart, and made them hate the sun. So they fled underground.

Edit: Wiki saves all.

History:

Lolth was banished to the Abyss by Corellon Larethian, who has forevermore been her enemy.

Forgotten Realms

Long before the elves first travelled to Abeir-Toril from the original elven homeland of Tintageer on the magical world of Faerie, Lolth was known as Araushnee, the "Weaver of Destiny", a Lesser deity of the Seldarine, the elven pantheon of gods. As a goddess of weavers and a spinner of fate, the destiny of the Ssri-Tel'Quessir (dark elves) was placed in the hands of Araushnee by the decree of Corellon Larethian, Creator of the Elves and leader of the Seldarine, in addition to being the consort of Araushnee. The union between Corellon Larethian and the Weaver of Destiny in the form of two children, the Lesser deities Vhaeraun, the Masked Lord, and Eilistraee, the Dark Maiden.

Despite all of this, Araushnee was a jealous schemer who envied Corellon and secretly planned to overthrow him and replace him as First of the Seldarine and Coronal of Arvandor. Allying herself with Gruumsh, leader of the orcish pantheon and an arch-nemesis to Corellon, Araushnee attempted to have her consort assassinated by using her position as a loved one of Corellon. Her many attempts to kill the First of the Seldarine failed and eventually these plots were discovered by Sehanine Moonbow, the most powerful goddess of the Seldarine, who had also been suspicious of Araushnee's true motivations. Upon confronting the Weaver of Destiny, Sehanine Moonbow was imprisoned by the traitor goddess. Seeing an opportunity, Araushnee was roused to action and she, Gruumsh and her son Vhaeraun, another co-conspirator in Araushnee's plots, gathered together a great alliance of Greater and Lesser deities of the orcs, goblinoids, kobolds, giants, ogres and many other gods of the evil races. This army of deities was also joined by Malar, god of evil werebeasts, Auril, the savage Frostmaiden and Ghaunadaur, or That Which Lurks, a primordial evil and a future member of the Dark Seldarine.

The god-army marched on Arvandor, facing Corellon Larethian and the rest of the Seldarine (bar Sehanine Moonbow, who was still imprisoned), including Eilistraee, who was unaware of her mother's treachery. During the battle that followed, Araushnee and Vhaeraun feigned to fight for the Seldarine while attempting to aid the opposing army, Araushnee even going so far as to redirect an arrow fired by her daughter to hit Corellon. Amid the course of the battle, Sehanine Moonbow managed to escape her imprisonment and revealed the treachery and betrayal of Araushnee to Corellon. The battle for Arvandor was eventually won, the evil army of beast gods eventually driven off by the combined might of the assembled Seldarine and the other fey deities of Arborea. As the battle was being fought, Corellon Larethian faced his betrayer.

Araushnee once again tried to kill her former lover but the intervention of three elven goddesses prevented this. Sehanine Moonbow, Hanali Celanil and Aerdrie Faenya had all come to battle Araushnee the Weaver and, coalescing their collective powers into a new form they created the goddess Angharradh, a new consort to Corellon and an equal to him in power. Araushnee was swiftly defeated by Angharradh. Corellon looked upon the defeated form of his betrayer, mother of his children and once beloved by him, it was then that the First of the Seldarine broken-heartedly cursed his love, Araushnee the Weaver of Destiny, into the form of a hideous spider-bodied tanar'ri, stripping her of her divinity and branding her with the name Lolth and casted her into the Abyss, never to return. Corellon also banished Vhaeraun, knowing of his son's duplicity and involvement in his mother's plots. Though Corellon knew his daughter's innocence, Eilistraee chose to share the fate of her mother and brother, the Dark Maiden no doubt sensing that the dark elves would one day need a reprieve from the path of hate and evil that they would eventually set upon, following their dark goddess; their Spider Queen.

In the Abyss, many millennia passed by as Lolth raged bitterly over her failed plans, along the way rejecting the advances of Ghaunadaur and sending it into a terrible rage, during which it stole the intellect of many of its followers, effectively robbing itself of most of its power, power which it has only recently regained. However, the Queen of Spiders learned an important lesson from That Which Lurks, by gaining the worship of mortals she could return to her former level of power and beyond. Revealing herself to the dark elven races on various worlds, especially Abeir-Toril, Lolth regained her divinity, achieving part of her ultimate goal to wreak terrible vengeance on Corellon Larethian and the Seldarine. Lolth was the secret power behind many of the dark elven houses of Ilythiir during the terrible Crown Wars that waged between the great elven empires of an age long ago. When the clerics of lost Illefarn prayed to the Seldarine for salvation from the evil elves of Ilythiir and the avatar of Corellon Larethian cursed all Ssri-Tel'Quessir to share the fate of their Abyssmal mother, naming them dhaeraow and divorcing them from the light of day, Lolth led her people into the Underdark, mirroring her own fall from Arvandor so long before. Again, Lolth broke Corellon's heart with this Descent. The dark elves were sundered forever from their creator and all Tel'Quessir, and again Lolth had taken another step in her quest for vengeance against Corellon and his Seldarine.

 

[Kaodi]

I think I would have gone with duergar worshippers of Tharizdun/Earth Elemental Evil. That would have been scary, a bunch of evil dwarves in an underground tunnel system who have the power to use the terrain as a weapon...

 

[Rechan]

I'm hoping they make the Derro more touched by the Far Realm. I'd like it if they were portrayed as the dwarves that dug too deep and stayed down too long.....

Dwarves that lost touch with everyone else for eons...trapped in their own minds....warp central...

YOINK, so hard.

I think I would have gone with duergar worshippers of Tharizdun/Earth Elemental Evil. That would have been scary, a bunch of evil dwarves in an underground tunnel system who have the power to use the terrain as a weapon...

Hmm. Isn't Tharizdun the Cthulu? Wouldn't that make him far-realms related?

Also, I wonder, if you have dwarves worshiping the far realms/etc, then what does that make the Trogs, who are supposedly the elder evil worshiping humanoids with no scrap of humanity?

 

[Raven Crowking]

I wonder if they also changed their type to "Giant".

(I was going to link to "My World's Dwarves" in House Rules, but it seems to have gone missing......Odd.)

 

[Nahat Anoj]

Hmm. Isn't Tharizdun the Cthulu? Wouldn't that make him far-realms related?

Demons (and demon gods like Tharizdun) actively want to destroy everything, including (eventually) themselves. I don't think Cthulhu wants to destroy himself.

Also, I wonder, if you have dwarves worshiping the far realms/etc, then what does that make the Trogs, who are supposedly the elder evil worshiping humanoids with no scrap of humanity?

Troglogdytes in D&D? Or troggs from WoW?

 

[Rechan]

Hmmm. I just had a thought. We know that in the Core's implied setting, Dwarves used to be slaves to the Giants (ergo the animosity between them). Could this mean that the duergar basically turned to devils for a means of fighting back against the giants?

Demons (and demon gods like Tharizdun) actively want to destroy everything, including (eventually) themselves. I don't think Cthulhu wants to destroy himself.

Ah. Is the Elemental Earth Evil an aspect of Tharizdun?

Troglogdytes in D&D? Or troggs from WoW?

The former.

The flavor (or at least, inspiration) that someone explained to me, trogs were evil, subterranian, elder evil worshipin' salamanders.

 

[CleverNickName]

Liking it

Y'know, like most "grognards" I tend to resist change. And I'm usually not very picky about what I am resisting, either. Even if I never will use it in my game, I don't want it to change for some reason.

But then, WotC comes out with some really good stuff, and dammit, now I can't wait to see the new duergar. In spite of myself, I have to admit these new flavor elements look tasty indeed.

It spins a story in my head about a clan of dwarves who happened upon the source of an ancient evil, and were stained by it. Slowly, maybe over centuries, the dwarves were compelled to dig deeper and deeper, driven closer to the source of the evil that was buried in the ancient stone...what was this evil? did they ever find it? what happened to them after?

Even the abilities sound cool. Being able to turn invisible makes sense for a "stalkers who lurk beneath" sort of race, who wage war against other subterranean races and terrorize the surrounding countryside.