Dungeon 117

[Henry]

Makes you wonder if Eberron is really hated so widely, or if the limited detractors are just louder and more vocal than the silent majority.

This is why Paizo and Wotc Staffers keep an ear to ENWorld and other forums, but why they don't necessarily gauge their business plans on us.

Eberron is a fairly popular world, from the boards I listen to; you just have to read between the lines. For every post "Eberron Sucks!"*, there are ten posts elsewhere about how great it is, rules questions, etc. and even people converting it to other systems. Even with people converting Eberron to, say, Exalted, or HARP, or Adventure! those are STILL Eberron sales. Message board posters are usually the diehard fans who are passionate about the game; the majority of players are more "weekend warriors."

*I've not implying anyone here is anti-Eberron; I'm just pointing to general trends.

 

[Arnwyn]

It's funny how Eberron seems to be selilng well,

Until WotC releases sales figures, there's no evidence one way or the other. Heh. Considering the above and the rest of your post, I'm seeing a bit of irony here.

Makes you wonder if Eberron is really hated so widely,

Never saw any indication on this thread about Eberron being "hated so widely". Are you sure you know what you're talking about?

or if the limited detractors are just louder and more vocal than the silent majority.

It's that irony thing, again.

 

[takasi]

How many Dungeon adventures have there been?

Queen with Burning Eyes
Steel Shadows

Of these, the first had warforged encounters. The second was very warforged heavy.

How is this "too much" warforged? One article?

I would like to see more Eberron material in Dungeon. Specifically, I would like to see sidebars on every adventure that provides suggestions for Eberron placement. Six adventures is not enough for the flagship campaign setting for D&D.

 

[jester47]

It's funny how Eberron seems to be selilng well, is getting good support (more than any other "Offical" setting), and is growing a good fan base.

Yet the majority of the posts here complain about it. Makes you wonder if Eberron is really hated so widely, or if the limited detractors are just louder and more vocal than the silent majority.

edit: Also, 6 adventures in two issues and one was Eberron? That's a low statistic. What about that Psionics adventure? That would've been even TOUGHER to convert than Eberron.

I have no problem with Eberron as a campaign setting. I certainly don't think it sucks. I think its pretty interesting. But its just not my style. FR, GH, KoK, Blackmoor and Wilderlands are (besides I have found you can do pulp in any of the above). It just seems to me that if you are running the path and not an Eberron Campaign, you might wind up with a limited selection. Then again I am stalking up for the rest of my life, so it really does not matter for me as I don't play often enough to burn through modules at 3 a month. I just figure they should make room for more submission authors as the path and Eberron adventures probably are solicited by the magazine and not the readers. Eventually cutting Eberron down to a quarterly appearance (say after 6) would allow for 2 more reader sumbmissions.

Aaron.

Aaron.

 

[jester47]

Damn, James, that'd be the first time I was right on anybody's business plan. Thanks for the reply.

About one every other month or so is about what I'd have expected, and pretty much the same ratio with Forgotten Realms scenarios, if I recall correctly.

I think the eventual ideal would be to have the

Generic layer - here you get a generic every month, rotating in level, low mid high.

Setting layer - here you get a supported setting based adventure every month. It rotates between Eberron, FR, and a guest adventure from a 3rd party (like a midnight adventure, a KoK adventure, an Arcanis adventure etc.). The Eberron and the FR rotate low med high as they come through on a quarterly basis.

Path layer - this is the adventure path series of the time, rotating from levels 1-20.

I think this would keep everyone happy.

Aaron.

 

[jester47]

How many Dungeon adventures have there been?

Queen with Burning Eyes
Steel Shadows

If you count 117, its 3, one every other issue.

Of these, the first had warforged encounters. The second was very warforged heavy.

How is this "too much" warforged? One article?

WF appear in all three. And don't forget the King of Blades article.

I would like to see more Eberron material in Dungeon. Specifically, I would like to see sidebars on every adventure that provides suggestions for Eberron placement.

Halfway to a good idea there, I would say have one that places it in several settings.

Six adventures is not enough for the flagship campaign setting for D&D.

Flagship?! If Eberron's the "Flagship" setting, Forgotten Realms is the "Carrier Fleet!"

Aaron.

 

[takasi]

Setting layer - here you get a supported setting based adventure every month. It rotates between Eberron, FR, and a guest adventure from a 3rd party (like a midnight adventure, a KoK adventure, an Arcanis adventure etc.). The Eberron and the FR rotate low med high as they come through on a quarterly basis.

I don't mind the idea of rotating between FR & Eberron every other issue. I don't think Greyhawk is necessary, considering the HUGE number of free modules available for home campaigns through the RPGA as well as past Dungeon coverage. These modules should get some coverage in a one-pager in every issue of Dungeon, especially considering the loss of Polyhedron. I don't want to see any non-WotC setting specific material in Dungeon. Dragon and Dungeon should be first and foremost WotC material.

WF appear in all three. And don't forget the King of Blades article.

The premise was "the eberron modules in Dungeon are too numerous and are difficult to convert due to warforged encounters." There are only two so far to judge, and only one of them (Steel Shadows) includes warforged as encounters. The Queen with Burning Eyes does NOT have warforged as encounters (though there is an illustration of a party member as a warforged as well as some background flavor text that includes warforged). The LoB is fully statted out, and there's little reason why he couldn't appear in FR, Greyhawk or almost any other setting.

Halfway to a good idea there, I would say have one that places it in several settings.

Following the MM3 as an example, I would say Eberron and FR. I don't see a reason to include other settings, because these are the only two with retail product support from WotC.

Flagship?! If Eberron's the "Flagship" setting, Forgotten Realms is the "Carrier Fleet!"

A fleet with plenty of existing material. Eberron is the new setting, and it needs more support from Dungeon.

 

[jester47]

I don't mind the idea of rotating between FR & Eberron every other issue. I don't think Greyhawk is necessary, considering the HUGE number of free modules available for home campaigns through the RPGA as well as past Dungeon coverage. These modules should get some coverage in a one-pager in every issue of Dungeon, especially considering the loss of Polyhedron. I don't want to see any non-WotC setting specific material in Dungeon. Dragon and Dungeon should be first and foremost WotC material.

Then I would say that instead of the 3rd party stuff have a quarterly update of something old.

The premise was "the eberron modules in Dungeon are too numerous

only slightly so

and are difficult to convert due to warforged encounters."

Only if you are lazy like me. It really isn't that hard.

There are only two so far to judge, and only one of them (Steel Shadows) includes warforged as encounters. The Queen with Burning Eyes does NOT have warforged as encounters (though there is an illustration of a party member as a warforged as well as some background flavor text that includes warforged).

so lets nip it in the bud before it becomes a problem on the scale of half-dragons, you know "strike to preempt!"

The LoB is fully statted out, and there's little reason why he couldn't appear in FR, Greyhawk or almost any other setting.

Why does his being fully statted out allow him to be in other settings? You don't need stats for that.

Following the MM3 as an example, I would say Eberron and FR. I don't see a reason to include other settings, because these are the only two with retail product support from WotC.

And Greyhawk. As long as Mona is at the wheel(s) you are going to get Greyhawk. Might as well enjoy the ride!

A fleet with plenty of existing material. Eberron is the new setting, and it needs more support from Dungeon.

I think an adventure every other issue for a year is reasonable. Afterwards I would say slow it down. Let some FR sunshine in, update more old stuff, or let the readers get some more space in the mag. I am not fighting Eberron, I am fighting for the magazine to remain balanced. At the current rate any more Eberron would be more than any setting has gotten in Dungeon ever. Eberron has to wait until its 16 years old before it can drive the car too.

Aaron.

 

[Richards]

Originally posted by Piratecat, about who's had the most adventures published in Dungeon:

Probably Chris Perkins. Willie Walsh and Johnathan Richards have also written quite a few. I know I'm forgetting a lot of folks, though.

I think you're correct with Chris Perkins. Willie Walsh is far ahead of me, though.

Johnathan

 

[scadgrad]

No Eberron love here

I like the new direction Dungeon has taken and once again, I eagerly await each issue. Dumping the Poly section was a welcome change in my view, and I'm strongly considering a subscription once again (I've been supporting MFLGS, but my loyalty is waning). I've been on board since Issue #1 and just thought I'd weigh in on the debate.

I think I can stomach a few more months of Eberron love, but then it really needs to taper off to maybe 2X a year. I ran "Queen" (actually twice) IMC w/ little if any probs, but have no interest in Steel Shadows at all. I must confess that I'm in the "really, really, REALLY hate Eberron crowd," but I do realize that it needs to have its moment in the sun. That being said, the sooner it becomes a far less frequent element of Dungeon, the happier I'll be.