Dungeon Crawl Classics What is cool to you from a player perspective?

[Distracted DM]

Gotta second this. I was playing DCC for a couple of years before I even knew the funnel existed. At some point it seems to be seen as this requirement, but its a total optional game mode.

The book heavily recommends doing it. That's probably why people think it's an integral part. Also the character creation process assumes you're doing it. It's presented as optional only so much as the book says "hey you're thinking about skipping the funnel? You should really do it."

And I can see why if you're sold on DCC, funnel is great, it gives everyone a great origin story for the party (IMO if you keep it to one session, but a lot of the funnel adventures will probably be more than one session). But if you're trying to sell the system to your friends... Level 3 pregen one-shot

 

[payn]

The book heavily recommends doing it. That's probably why people think it's an integral part. Also the character creation process assumes you're doing it. It's presented as optional only so much as the book says "hey you're thinking about skipping the funnel? You should really do it."

And I can see why if you're sold on DCC, funnel is great, it gives everyone a great origin story for the party (IMO if you keep it to one session, but a lot of the funnel adventures will probably be more than one session). But if you're trying to sell the system to your friends... Level 3 pregen one-shot

Cant disagree with any of that. I do enjoy the funnel but the first several games of DCC I did was straight to level 3. So, I dont think skipping it is a huge loss.

 

[Parmandur]

Cant disagree with any of that. I do enjoy the funnel but the first several games of DCC I did was straight to level 3. So, I dont think skipping it is a huge loss.

It does set a "bad" precedent for people, as past Level 1 the game us no more or less lethal than any other, but the funnel gives it a certain murderous reputation.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

After DCC characters level up once or twice, the lethality goes way down. DCC levels are roughly equivalent to two D&D levels, so a level 3 DCC character is about as fragile as a level 6 D&D character -- not very, in other words.

Agreed. I think that the Funnel remains important in that it sets the expectation, the possibility, that death waits around the corner. Regardless of whether or not it actually does, that dramatically changes how people interface with the game, makes it more thrilling.

In any case, Mighty Deeds of Arms is so good, it's a headscratcher that every game hasn't stolen it. And DCC does a great job of making magic (both arcane and divine) weird and mysterious. Characters are rightly nervous standing too close to the wizard or cleric.

Mighty Deeds are so good. It adds so much creativity to the Warrior class. You never have to be content with "I swing my longsword."

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

The book heavily recommends doing it. That's probably why people think it's an integral part. Also the character creation process assumes you're doing it. It's presented as optional only so much as the book says "hey you're thinking about skipping the funnel? You should really do it."

And I can see why if you're sold on DCC, funnel is great, it gives everyone a great origin story for the party (IMO if you keep it to one session, but a lot of the funnel adventures will probably be more than one session). But if you're trying to sell the system to your friends... Level 3 pregen one-shot

From a long-term campaign standpoint, the funnel is also more likely to spit out a weird mismatched party than one that will do well going forward. Amusing when you're not at the table, but playing without a cleric or a fighter for the rest of the campaign because Goodman and the internet think that's more fun to imagine kind of sucks.

Also, at least some of the funnels are pretty heavy handed "unless you do this one thing, nothing your player characters can do will work" old-school-in-a-bad-way adventure designs. I am skeptical many people really enjoy that style of play.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Agreed. I think that the Funnel remains important in that it sets the expectation, the possibility, that death waits around the corner. Regardless of whether or not it actually does, that dramatically changes how people interface with the game, makes it more thrilling.

Shadowdark also features the funnel, although it leans toward everyone just starting at level one by default. (On the other hand, the quickstart books feature a level 0 funnel, so it's like a 50/50 split on what Kelsey is pushing at the players.)

What sets the expectation for lethality there is the torch going out mid-battle and the three goblins who were about to get slaughtered by the party instead TPKing them.

I'm confident that most DCC groups that start playing at level 1 will find themselves in real trouble early on enough to learn their lesson as well.

 

[overgeeked]

Shadowdark also features the funnel, although it leans toward everyone just starting at level one by default. (On the other hand, the quickstart books feature a level 0 funnel, so it's like a 50/50 split on what Kelsey is pushing at the players.)

What sets the expectation for lethality there is the torch going out mid-battle and the three goblins who were about to get slaughtered by the party instead TPKing them.

I'm confident that most DCC groups that start playing at level 1 will find themselves in real trouble early on enough to learn their lesson as well.

I think it's tied in to what you were saying before about level comparisons. Every DCC level is roughly 2 levels of other old-school games. They realized this and wanted to preserve that deadly old-school feel, so they made funnels.

I love funnels. They're so chaotic and fun. I do agree about the singular solution being a problem in a lot of funnels and lower-level modules, but I disagree about funnels spitting out bad parties.

The hows and whys of the funnel are discussed in the book, and I agree with that. You get characters with a spread of stats that don't always perfectly align with the class your group needs. That's infinitely more fun than every cleric having an 18-20 WIS, or a wizard with 18-20 INT. The cleric with the 13 WIS is a lot more fun to play. I've always found that's true. The funnel setup simply reinforces that style.

Players are also a lot more attached to the level-0 peasant who actually survived the funnel than they are of the level-1 character they just rolled up. I absolutely love playing through the characters' backstory like that. Gives the player an instant connection to the character and builds connections between the characters as a group.

I get that it's not for everyone, and that's fine. But I absolutely love funnels. Some of the best times we had playing DCC was the funnel.

 

[Voadam]

Had our first game last night, we got partway through the funnel.

I had fun with my group.

I am familiar with a bunch of modules and the 70s gonzo S&S tones but not the specifics of the rules and had not read the core book pdf beforehand.

The DM had a stack of predone four by four starting character sheets from which I drew a sheet randomly. He explained how it is close to simplified 3e with luck added and we picked names and started to work on characterizations.

He was using a print module and reading the boxed text straight.

The setup was unclear on if it was telling us we were all naturally motivated to jump into crazy danger or supernaturally prompted to do so and if so when that would drop or to what extent it should be there for roleplay and purposes of making choices.

I was a bit annoyed that it started off with us buying rations for an unknown duration journey, I was ready to go with just the starting gear and making things work with just a chisel and a torch.

Some random death from die rolls, no decision making on our part. My two characters I had built up roleplay characterization for in play died this way. Alberto the dwarven chest-maker and Alejandro the guild beggar. My friend Albert’s dwarven chest maker inherited Alberto’s 10 pounds of good wood and swore to avenge his brother’s death.

My woodcutter Andrew, with the best stats, died from scouting, poking just his head into a sleeping giant’s room looking for guard beasts before entering he saw one who grabbed him, yanked him in, and consumed him before I could act. No save to spend my 14 luck on.

This left me with my hunter Aaron who is dumb (int 5) and not personable (personality 8) but started with six hp while my others started with one or two.

As Aaron I kept suggesting terrible plan ideas that would never work.

 

[Voadam]

My woodcutter Andrew, with the best stats, died from scouting, poking just his head into a sleeping giant’s room looking for guard beasts before entering he saw one who grabbed him, yanked him in, and consumed him before I could act. No save to spend my 14 luck on.

This was more galling because had we not done the shopping and one of the characters sold their starting equipment mirror to get cash for trail rations, we could have looked in and seen the beast without getting immediately ganked. Remembering that sale I specifically asked if anyone else had a mirror before sticking my head in (Andrew RIP had a 12 int).

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Do you happen to remember the name of the adventure, @Voadam?