Dungeons & Discourse: Atheism (and related)

[kitsune9]

Atheists in a D&D world should be powerful in their own right, armed with the knowledge that if they can escape death or accumulate enough magical power to go somewhere else, they escape the clutches of the supposed "gods" and any judgement that awaits them.

Also, being an atheist simply could be a looser definition that the Athar in Planescape uses--in that gods are just powerful beings, but they can't do anything and everything. They acknowledge their power, respect it, maybe even ally themselves with it, but when posed with the question of there being any kind of Supreme Being, their answer is "no".

I cannot see common people being atheists because with the evidence of these powerful beings (i.e. example of the Avatar war in the Forgotten Realms), if they say they are gods, then that's what they are--gods.

Now if you have a setting like Eberron where there is no proof of the gods existence other than the claims of their clerics and their magical abilities, it's possible for Eberron to go through an Age of Reason in which the common man rejects the arguments of faith.

However, one thing in D&D is that faith is important. It grants power if not protection. For the common people, protection is important since their life is so harsh toiling in the fields. If a guy comes into my village, blesses my crops, heals little Johnny of his fever, and essentially makes life more bearable, I'll believe whatever god he preaches. Even if I am a learned scholar and am more familiare with the workings of the multiverse, only a fool would proclaim themselves an atheist when the evidence of their works manifests itself in everyone's daily lives.

 

[Corathon]

Once had a player create an atheistic character. He was deemed to be insane by most people.

 

[TheObserver]

I know it might be a little of the topic, but I like the Forgotten Realms take on the deities. That they get their power from their worshippers and how they treat their worshippers. I also like the fact that you didn't have to look to any deity but you faced the consequence of being part of the Wall of the Faithless if you didn't worship any deity.

Also something to consider is the education level of the charcaters, not of the Player themselves. So if you really are roleplaying your character wouldn't know everything that you do.

In my FR campaign you can choose not to believe just not if you are character that needs divine power to use their abilities.

 

[Janx]

For real-world humans, beliefs and evidence are not nearly as related as we'd like to think. People will believe, or refuse to believe, a lot of things despite what the evidence suggests.



No. The powers are proof that there is power available. Maybe that cleric is willfully or unconsciously using a form of magic that doesn't actually come from a deity.

good point. People are wierd that way.

It sounds like Atheism might not mean the same thing in D&D-land compared to real life. That might be OK.

In D&D-land, if Thor is a God, it's impractical to say you don't believe in Thor to the priest of Thor you are talking to, and then 'poof!' Thor appears and asks you why you don't believe he exists and would you mind holding his hammer for a minute?

But it may be reasonable to question things that people take for truth that can't be proven. Thor's not a god, he's a 50th level Fighter! Odin didn't make the universe, he just showed up and got XP to level 75!

If nothing else, atheism tends to be anti-religion. The world may be populated by super powerful beings, but I'm not going to worship them because I don't think they have any bearing in my life.

I could see a farmer who has this outlook and thus could be an atheist. Maybe he's never gotten any benefit from a cleric, etc. Maybe he lives out in the boonies.

I could also see a farmer family who believes in the gods and prays to them for health, thanks them for a good harvest. And perhaps, the act of praying does indeed grant them some benefit (like good crops, general health) that could justify the overall "pleasantness" of D&D peasant-life vs. realistic medieval peasant life.

I also recall another thread where Celebrim describe ancient greek gods as super high level NPCs who were generally jerks and would yank people's chains. As such, clerics and such basically flattered them with offerings to appease them (get them to leave us alone) or avoided their name to avoid attracting their attention. thus Zeus wasn't necessarily a good guy, just a high level NPC who liked slumming with the ladies and zapping a Lightning Bolt down now and then.

 

[Twichyboy]

in my usual games, its basically impossible for people to not know that the "gods" exist, and in that case disbelieve them

so an "Atheist" or the equivalent in my games are people that recognize that these beings exist and that people generally worship them, however they don't them as gods, but more of just extremely powerful beings, and that level can technically be achieved by anyone.

 

[prosfilaes]

I think it would be amusing to play an atheist angel in In Nomine. In that setting, it wouldn't be beyond the ability of the archangels to play God, and it wouldn't deviate far from the SAW for them to do so. Maybe the demon princes are playing Lucifer, too, but how they don't kill each other without him is a good question. (I actually bet a bunch of young demons doubt the existence of Lucifer in that setting, mostly those that haven't met him yet. A good percentage, conceivably even the majority of demons, doubt God; I suppose that technically makes them atheists, or just makes them monotheistic believers in Lucifer.)

 

[lulzapalooza]

When I DM, I wouldn't introduce a character who would be described as being an atheist. The gods are demonstrably real, you can go to their house and have a conversation with them. Someone who claims they don't exist is either uneducated or amazingly bullheaded. Dungeons and Dragons seems like a good game to argue some broad points of morality, but theology, not so much.

However, Dogs in the Vineyard is an excellent game to discuss the nature of faith, as it's right in the mechanics!

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

However, I'd be surprised to find someone who believed in Thor, Osiris, or Zeus.

Unfortunately, in the United States, some of the gods of Pre-Christian Europe are now the divinities of choice of certain brands of white supremacy/aryan movements. Check out "Odinists". There was a recent article about one such Odinist- named his boy "Tyrson"- who went through a dozen+ procedures to remove his white supremacists tattoos after he had a change of heart.

 

[blargney the second]

so an "Atheist" or the equivalent in my games are people that recognize that these beings exist and that people generally worship them, however they don't them as gods, but more of just extremely powerful beings, and that level can technically be achieved by anyone.

"Those aren't gods - they're just particularly large chunks of XP!"

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I think it very much depends on how you define and portray the gods in your campaign setting.

If you have distant gods who do not manifest themselves physically, but yet there is ready, tangible evidence (magic and the like) of the expression of faith in a particular god or gods, then I'd guess true atheism would be quite rare.

On the other hand, in a setting like FR (of the novels, anyway) where so-called "gods" exist who regularly manifest themselves physically, and there are large numbers of powerful, otherwise mortal beings, I can actually see a large number of atheists among educated and well-traveled folk, since they will have evidence that there is a continuum of beings of power, and more than likely anyone claiming to be a "god" is just an otherwise more powerful being, but there's almost certainly someone else more powerful around the corner. This is doubly true in a setting where mortals are able to assume the mantle of gods (e.g. Kelemvor in FR).

In other words: familiarity breeds contempt.