D&D Movie/TV Dungeons & Dragons: Honor Among Thieves could change D&D forever


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Interesting point. That could partly explain the push to "de-authorize" OGL1.0, since it's existence might diminish the dollar value of the D&D IP, at least in the suits' lizard brains?
I just don't believe suits even knew what the OGL really was before all this happened. Someone told them it was some minor obstacle to be swept aside, and then touched it and got severely electrocuted. They still don't understand it, they just understand that people are really mad and they don't seem to be getting less mad, and it's getting them a ton of almost-unprecedent negative press.
 

I dunno how much effect movies has on the popularity of RPGs. Otherwise Star Wars and Marvel games would be much bigger than they are.
It doesn't help that TTRPGs of movie/comics IPs have, with rare exceptions, been extremely poorly chosen for people who want an experience akin to the movies/comics.

WEG D6 Star Wars would have been great as "Andor Simulator", but it was what, nearly 40 years before Andor? Weirdly very influential on later Star Wars stuff, but not through the rules.
WotC's d20-based SW was just wildly inappropriate for anyone who liked SW. It was just D&D in low-rent cosplay.
The more recent SW game I haven't played, but the people I know who have thought it was a cool SF game, but not really a Star Wars game.

Marvel actually did start out decently with FASERIP, which, for '80s Marvel made sense, but got completely abandoned by TSR, just as comics were starting to get big again. MSHAG arrived after comics got big, and was an innovative design, and before its time, but totally failed to lean into what made late '90s comics big. I love Cortex but the Cortext-based Marvel game that was more recent was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too fancy for a general audience, conceptually, and the most recent Marvel game? It's explicitly not MCU (mistake, imo), and has a wildly overcomplicated and bizarre system.

There's been a persistent failure to engage with what people actually want out of games of those settings, I'd suggest. Marvel FASERIP was the only one that really got close, and was very much "of its time".
 

I think they're both right and wrong.

If D&D:HAT is a good movie, and well-regarded, it will help cement D&D as a "solid IP", not of the Star Wars/MCU or even DCU level, but perhaps approaching the level of more mid-grade IPs, and would certainly help prevent any stigma returning to RPGs.

But honestly I think we're past the point where stigma of any kind can really be an issue for D&D, except possibly the dread "That's fun but it's for old people" or "That was fun when I was a kid". D&D is currently pretty well-positioned to avoid that, given the core audience seems to be about 15-29 buuuuuuut all it would take would be an '80s-like situation where a lot of people just drift away from the game for it to perhaps acquire that stigma. I know loads of 30-40-somethings currently teaching their kids D&D, but will those kids go on to play it as adults, or will they leave it behind as a game for kids? I think that's in the balance, and I don't think D&D:HAT or sequels will actually make much odds to that.

If it's a failure, things do become more uncertain, though because WotC have limited financial exposure there, I don't think that would cause big decisions to be made. I think it would take both a failure of the HAT and of the 3D VTT for big decisions to start getting made. I'd say the 3D VTT is far more likely to fail, too.

What would those big decisions be? Honestly they could go in a lot of different directions. The only commonality is Hasbro/WotC are likely to reduce investment in D&D and D&D-related products. History shows that can be a positive and a negative. My personal suspicion is that both fail, Hasbro will essentially want WotC to basically put D&D into "maintenance mode", which will be kind of good for anyone who likes D&D as it is at that time, but may set in stone issues people aren't fond of, and with the new OGL, may have damaged the ability of 3PPs to help out. It's also quite possible Hasbro would sell off either WotC or just the D&D IP, which could very well or incredibly badly depending on who bought it. Almost certainly it would be a videogame publisher which buy it. History tells us that doesn't go well - c.f. the fate of White Wolf (CCP really wrecked it and Paradox have been more gentle and positive but haven't achieved much).

There's another angle too - if HAT succeeds well (and the TV show does), but the 3D VTT Is a miserable failure relative to investment, it's actually possible Disney might buy D&D as a movie/TV IP. They'd probably keep the TTRPG going, but might make some weird changes.

Personally I'm inclined to hope it does well, because whilst I'm not hugely fond of the IP of D&D as lifestyle brand, I do think it would be better for the hobby, including non-D&D RPGs, if that happens.

James Gunn is nuking the DCEU from space, over the next few years it'll be deader then the Arrowverse.

A better comparison would have been MCU/Spiderverse (they are connected now as I count them as one), Wizarding World, Avatar, Star Wars.

I think DDCU could be competitive with early Phase 1 MCU, Star Trek, Transformers, DCU, and some others. If things go really well over a decade then maybe they can compete with the MCU Phase 3.
 

James Gunn is nuking the DCEU from space, over the next few years it'll be deader then the Arrowverse.
Sure but they only got him in to even nuke it because it's so valuable it's better nuked and reborn than left how it is. I hope he preserves The Batman somehow though, that was great.
A better comparison would have been MCU/Spiderverse (they are connected now as I count them as one), Wizarding World, Avatar, Star Wars.
Sure, all of which are a lot larger than D&D for now. I expect if JKR doesn't cease her idiocy D&D will eventually pass WWoHP - at this point WB have to be praying she gets eaten by a crocodile or something, because it would literally significantly increase the long-term value of that IP (by allowing new material and for it to be rehabilitated).

I don't think D&D is even at F&F levels yet.
I think DDCU could be competitive with early Phase 1 MCU, Star Trek, Transformers, DCU, and some others. If things go really well over a decade then maybe they can compete with the MCU Phase 3.
I dunno. Some of those movies made incredible amounts of money, despite some of them being terrible. I think a lot rides on how much HAT makes, and it's kind of looking like might be a little tricky at the box office right then. Like the relevant movies I can see around it are:

March 10 - Scream VI
March 24 - John Wick 4
March 31 - D&D:HAT
April 7 - Super Mario Bros

So D&D:HAT kind of only has at best a week where it's clear, even assuming people pick it over John Wick 4 (it does have a broader audience but still), because I think Super Mario Bros' audience is going to cross over extremely heavily with D&D:HAT's, and that won't favour D&D. And Super Mario is one of those movies where people will go even if the reviews are extremely negative, whereas D&D:HAT could be impaired by anything but very positive reviews.
 

Haplo781

Legend
Sure, all of which are a lot larger than D&D for now. I expect if JKR doesn't cease her idiocy D&D will eventually pass WWoHP - at this point WB have to be praying she gets eaten by a crocodile or something, because it would literally significantly increase the long-term value of that IP (by allowing new material and for it to be rehabilitated).
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"Say no more, boss."
 


MGibster

Legend
WEG D6 Star Wars would have been great as "Andor Simulator", but it was what, nearly 40 years before Andor? Weirdly very influential on later Star Wars stuff, but not through the rules.
WotC's d20-based SW was just wildly inappropriate for anyone who liked SW. It was just D&D in low-rent cosplay.
The more recent SW game I haven't played, but the people I know who have thought it was a cool SF game, but not really a Star Wars game.
You can check out some of the sourcebooks from WEG's Star Wars and see how they still continue to influence the franchise today. They had an Imperial Sourcebook that outlined how the ISB worked and it would fit straight into Andor with no problem. I skipped the d20 Star Wars because, as you say, it was low-rent cosplay, but I did go with the FFG Star Wars. One of my major criticisms of FFG's Star Wars is that there are so many separate skills and ability trees that you can't really make a good pilot/gun fighter like we see in the movies. The other is the obsession with equipment and upgrading them.
 

Sure but they only got him in to even nuke it because it's so valuable it's better nuked and reborn than left how it is. I hope he preserves The Batman somehow though, that was great.

Sure, all of which are a lot larger than D&D for now. I expect if JKR doesn't cease her idiocy D&D will eventually pass WWoHP - at this point WB have to be praying she gets eaten by a crocodile or something, because it would literally significantly increase the long-term value of that IP (by allowing new material and for it to be rehabilitated).

I don't think D&D is even at F&F levels yet.

I dunno. Some of those movies made incredible amounts of money, despite some of them being terrible. I think a lot rides on how much HAT makes, and it's kind of looking like might be a little tricky at the box office right then. Like the relevant movies I can see around it are:

March 10 - Scream VI
March 24 - John Wick 4
March 31 - D&D:HAT
April 7 - Super Mario Bros

So D&D:HAT kind of only has at best a week where it's clear, even assuming people pick it over John Wick 4 (it does have a broader audience but still), because I think Super Mario Bros' audience is going to cross over extremely heavily with D&D:HAT's, and that won't favour D&D. And Super Mario is one of those movies where people will go even if the reviews are extremely negative, whereas D&D:HAT could be impaired by anything but very positive reviews.

Wick is rated R and likely doesn't have a huge over lap in target audience, bit more over lap with Mario, but Mario skews younger I think, and I think looks to a very different audience.
 

Sure but they only got him in to even nuke it because it's so valuable it's better nuked and reborn than left how it is. I hope he preserves The Batman somehow though, that was great.

Sure, all of which are a lot larger than D&D for now. I expect if JKR doesn't cease her idiocy D&D will eventually pass WWoHP - at this point WB have to be praying she gets eaten by a crocodile or something, because it would literally significantly increase the long-term value of that IP (by allowing new material and for it to be rehabilitated).

I don't think D&D is even at F&F levels yet.

I dunno. Some of those movies made incredible amounts of money, despite some of them being terrible. I think a lot rides on how much HAT makes, and it's kind of looking like might be a little tricky at the box office right then. Like the relevant movies I can see around it are:

March 10 - Scream VI
March 24 - John Wick 4
March 31 - D&D:HAT
April 7 - Super Mario Bros

So D&D:HAT kind of only has at best a week where it's clear, even assuming people pick it over John Wick 4 (it does have a broader audience but still), because I think Super Mario Bros' audience is going to cross over extremely heavily with D&D:HAT's, and that won't favour D&D. And Super Mario is one of those movies where people will go even if the reviews are extremely negative, whereas D&D:HAT could be impaired by anything but very positive reviews.

Hogwarts Legacy is #1 on Steam and Playstation and #2 on XBox. For every person boycotting like 10 who aren't even Harry Potter fans buy the game.

The most effective tactic for dealing with her is to just ignore her if your unhappy with her, she feeds on your angry and profits from it. Don't let her use you as free advertising. Just friendly advice from a 3rd party observer whose not a Harry Potter fan who don't follow her on Twitter (I didn't buy the game, for my own reasons, not boycotting).
 

One of my major criticisms of FFG's Star Wars is that there are so many separate skills and ability trees that you can't really make a good pilot/gun fighter like we see in the movies. The other is the obsession with equipment and upgrading them.
Yeah that's the sort of thing I was hearing - both are completely at-odds with how the movies (or TV shows) portray the universe/experience, and to me it's bizarre someone would think that was okay.

I mean, dumber things have happened - c.f. Witcher 3 CRPG where Geralt, a man who literally never changes equipment except out of necessity, upgrades his gear 24/7 like it's Diablo 3. But at least that was a video game so had more of an excuse.
Hogwarts Legacy is #1 on Steam and Playstation and #2 on XBox. For every person boycotting like 10 who aren't even Harry Potter fans buy the game.
#2 behind FIFA23 on Steam actually at time of writing.

And think how it would be doing if the HP legacy was unstained by naked bigotry and increasing general idiocy? ("Wizards poop in a corner and use magic to clean it up" lol for god's sake Rowling.)

Not only would the boycotting people be buying it, but tons more would too. I don't buy that any significant number of people who "aren't HP fans" are pre-ordering it though. Not before reviews, that's just people lying about who they are if they're claiming that. It's just that there's an entire generation of HP fans who've never even seen an HP game that looked good lol. That's millions and millions and millions of people. It's not like it's up against heavy competition either - the new FIFA and Football Manager are literally the only other new games in the top 10. Honestly it's more shocking that Modern Warfare 2 is at #5 despite being months old and at full price.

My point is WB would be happy if she was gone because then they'd be free of that (which is definitely having an impact, c.f. box office of the Fantastic Beasts stuff) and could freely make new stuff (which she interferes heavily with).
Wick is rated R and likely doesn't have a huge over lap in target audience, bit more over lap with Mario, but Mario skews younger I think, and I think looks to a very different audience.
Absolute hard disagree about Mario. 150% disagree. There's a massive audience crossover. This isn't 20 years ago when adults were scared to go to animated movies. Mario is just like D&D's audience + more. Wick definitely has a significant overlap but nowhere near as large (it's like 50% of D&D's potential audience). However, the core audience for D&D right now is teens and 20s, and the overlap there (and with Scream VI if it's actually good) will be the issue.
 

Lyandelill

(She/Her)
The most effective tactic for dealing with her is to just ignore her if your unhappy with her, she feeds on your angry and profits from it. Don't let her use you as free advertising. Just friendly advice from a 3rd party observer whose not a Harry Potter fan who don't follow her on Twitter (I didn't buy the game, for my own reasons, not boycotting).
I take it you are not part of the minority she wants dead and gone? Ignoring don't work when she's already massively helped with turning England into TERF island.
 
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I take it you are not part of the minority she wants dead and gone? Ignoring don't work when she's already massively helped with turning England into TERF island.
Agreed. It's bizarre how much of the UK's TERF idiocy issue can be laid squarely at her doorstep, because she mainstreamed it, with the able help of the Tories and the BBC. It's also one of the most age-split issues in UK history, with basically no-one below 40-45 agreeing with the TERF nonsense, and relatively few people above 70 agreeing with it either, though they're mostly very confused by the whole thing. Just this weird core of mostly-Gen Xers who are maximum TERF. The Tories (and their minions the BBC - c.f. the BBC chairman "loaning" Boris £800k a few weeks before being appointed lol) tried to promote the issues in an attempt to split Labour (a tactic which worked on Brexit), but all they've managed to do is make Labour vaguely TERF-y as well, because most of its politicians are Gen Xers.

It's pretty relevant to D&D's current issues too, because it illustrates how quickly laws can change when the right people want them to. Less than 5 years ago we were looking at actively at long-overdue pro-Trans reforms. And our previous Prime Minister (well, two PMs ago, but the last one lasted like a month) was pro-Trans even a year into being PM. But as soon as it became a potential political tool, that all changed.
 

Mercurius

Legend
I'm of the opinion that the cultural footprint of D&D shrinking would be better for the game as a whole.
I agree with this, but that ship has sailed. D&D has gotten too big, and Hasbro will do everything they can to squeeze every last dollar out of the property. We've all been reminded that, in the end, Hasbro is no different than any other corporation, and revenue/profits is the bottom line, so everything they do will be towards that end.

That is the tragedy of D&D: it is the industry leader, but also the only game whose course is set entirely on corporate profits. Obviously all, especially bigger companies like Paizo, are directed by profits, but none--except Hasbro/WotC--make their decisions entirely and only based on profits. Paizo et al still seem at least somewhat directed by love of the game itself.

This is why people should never, imo, be happy or impressed when WotC makes this or that statement about "listening to the fans" because, in the end, they only "listen" when they feel to do otherwise negatively impacts their revenue stream. It isn't unlike a habitual liar only admitting to lying when they are caught.
 





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