Dungeons & Dragons May Not Come Back to Greyhawk After 2024 Dungeon Master's Guide

Wizards of the Coast does not appear to have future plans for the Greyhawk setting past the 2024 Dungeon Master's Guide. Speaking at a press event earlier this month, Dungeons & Dragons game architect Chris Perkins explained that the inclusion of Greyhawk campaign setting material in the upcoming rulebook was meant to stand on its own. "Basically, we're saying 'Hey DMs, we're giving you Greyhawk as a foundation on which you can build your own setting stuff,'" Perkins said when asked about future Greyhawk setting material. "Whether we get back to Greyhawk or not in some capacity I cannot say, but that's our intention for now. This is the sandbox, it's Greyhawk. Go off and run Greyhawk or Greyhawk-like campaigns with this if you wish. We may not come to this version of Greyhawk for a while because we DMs to own it and play with it. This is not a campaign setting where I think we need to go in and start defining large sections of the world and adding more weight of content that DMs have to sit through in order to feel like they're running a proper Greyhawk campaign."

The 2024 Dungeon Master's Guide includes a campaign setting gazetteer focused on the Greyhawk setting, one of D&D's earliest campaign settings. The use of Greyhawk is intended to be an example for DMs on how to build a full-fledged campaign setting, with an overview of major conflicts and places to explore within the world. New maps of both Oerth and the city of Greyhawk are also included in the rulebook.

However, while it seems like Wizards isn't committing to future Greyhawk campaign setting material, Perkins admitted that the fans still have a say in the matter. "We're not so immutable with our plans that if the fans rose up and said 'Give us something Greyhawk,' that we would say 'No, never,'" Perkins said. "That won't happen."

Perkins also teased the appearance of more campaign settings in the future. "We absolutely will be exploring new D&D worlds and that door is always open," Perkins said.

 

[Parmandur]

I've never used scorpion-folk in the Bright Desert, but it's a cool idea!

The last time I GMed any Bright Desert action, the PCs fought with Orcs who were excavating an ancient magical tomb, took refuge in a friendly Sphinx's oasis, met nomads who were led by an old enemy of one of the PCs, and then had to cross the desert on foot to get to the Abor-Alz.

I don't think it's hard to come up with interesting stuff to happen in the Bright Desert.

The original idea was to have Martian stuff from Barsoom....

 

[Vaalingrade]

I've never used scorpion-folk in the Bright Desert, but it's a cool idea!

The last time I GMed any Bright Desert action, the PCs fought with Orcs who were excavating an ancient magical tomb, took refuge in a friendly Sphinx's oasis, met nomads who were led by an old enemy of one of the PCs, and then had to cross the desert on foot to get to the Abor-Alz.

I don't think it's hard to come up with interesting stuff to happen in the Bright Desert.

I think the issue is that no one is talking about the interesting things that are in the Bright Desert.

Like you can put anything anywhere, but that does not the official setting make.

 

[Parmandur]

I'm going to hazard a guess that the words "Baldur's Gate 3," and "20 million sales," played a role in this decision making.

Nah, the Forgotten Realms campaign books would have been in the works before BG3 was expected to be a breakout hit.

The Forgotten Realms is the moat popular Setting, and chock full of stuff. But Greyhawk is much more fitting for a 28 page sample in the DMG.

 

[Selas]

I'm going to hazard a guess that the words "Baldur's Gate 3," and "20 million sales," played a role in this decision making.

Also, there's no Campaign guide for FR in 5E, and there have been people asking for one for years. It's also the most developed setting by WotC and it's author Ed Greenwood

 

[pemerton]

(And yes, don't mention the words "Independent Fief" to him. It's red-rag to a bull ).

independent (adjective)
1. free from outside control; not subject to another's authority.
2. not depending on another for livelihood or subsistence.
fief (noun)
1. an estate of land, a vassal’s source of income, held from his lord in exchange for services

So here's what I get from Oxford Languages via Google:

noun: fief; plural noun: fiefs
1.
historical•Law
an estate of land, especially one held on condition of feudal service; a fee.


2.
a person's sphere of operation or control.​

So an independent fief would be an estate of land, probably once upon a time - or even still, notionally - held from a feudal lord but now free of control and rather under the sole control (de facto if not also de jure) of the one whose estate it is.

 

[Stuart Kerrigan]

So an independent fief would be an estate of land, probably once upon a time - or even still, notionally - held from a feudal lord but now free of control and rather under the sole control (de facto if not also de jure) of the one whose estate it is.

I knew someone would enjoy looking that up.

I'd use a different phrase, such as "former fief of..."

 

[Parmandur]

In terms of the Barsoom/Bright Desert connection, the Martian-inhabitsnt desert was near the Nyr Dyv in the pre-D&D Chainmail Grest Kingdom map, which lead to these random encounter tables in the first printing of OD&D:

And then Gygax and Blume really got into legal trouble with TSR's second Chainmail compatible product of 1974:

 

[Zeromaru X]

A learned colleague here wrote a rather long article on why the DMG 2024 is mildly vexing to us fan-author types that tried to have fidelity in our writings - Entirely Unsolicited Grognard Opinions on the World of Greyhawk in the 2024 D&D Dungeon Master’s Guide

I've already read that article, and it can be summed up to "all new is bad, all old is good and the only true way to play Greyhawk. And they ruined the setting when they added smurfing dragonborn to it."

 

[Selas]

I've already read that article, and it can be summed up to "all new is bad, all old is good and the only true way to play Greyhawk. And they ruined the setting when they added smurfing dragonborn to it."

I started reading it then dropped it because you can almost hear the condescending tone of the author while reading it. Sure, there are changes that cause friction in continuity, but the problem is that the old Greyhawk had many problematic elements, and WotC tried to move away from them. I at least give them kudos for the effort, even if purists completely hate it.

We've seen remakes of old movies and video games over the past 30 years, and most become more popular than the original version. WotC basically did a reboot to Greyhawk with the 2024 DMG, and new players are more likely to accept this updated Greyhawk than the old one.

 

[Parmandur]

I started reading it then dropped it because you can almost hear the condescending tone of the author while reading it. Sure, there are changes that cause friction in continuity, but the problem is that the old Greyhawk had many problematic elements, and WotC tried to move away from them. I at least give them kudos for the effort, even if purists completely hate it.

We've seen remakes of old movies and video games over the past 30 years, and most become more popular than the original version. WotC basically did a reboot to Greyhawk with the 2024 DMG, and new players are more likely to accept this updated Greyhawk than the old one.

That sort of attitude is precisely the performstive gatekeeping thst makes WotC leary of "continuity" at all.