Dungeons & Dragons May Not Come Back to Greyhawk After 2024 Dungeon Master's Guide

Wizards of the Coast does not appear to have future plans for the Greyhawk setting past the 2024 Dungeon Master's Guide. Speaking at a press event earlier this month, Dungeons & Dragons game architect Chris Perkins explained that the inclusion of Greyhawk campaign setting material in the upcoming rulebook was meant to stand on its own. "Basically, we're saying 'Hey DMs, we're giving you Greyhawk as a foundation on which you can build your own setting stuff,'" Perkins said when asked about future Greyhawk setting material. "Whether we get back to Greyhawk or not in some capacity I cannot say, but that's our intention for now. This is the sandbox, it's Greyhawk. Go off and run Greyhawk or Greyhawk-like campaigns with this if you wish. We may not come to this version of Greyhawk for a while because we DMs to own it and play with it. This is not a campaign setting where I think we need to go in and start defining large sections of the world and adding more weight of content that DMs have to sit through in order to feel like they're running a proper Greyhawk campaign."

The 2024 Dungeon Master's Guide includes a campaign setting gazetteer focused on the Greyhawk setting, one of D&D's earliest campaign settings. The use of Greyhawk is intended to be an example for DMs on how to build a full-fledged campaign setting, with an overview of major conflicts and places to explore within the world. New maps of both Oerth and the city of Greyhawk are also included in the rulebook.

However, while it seems like Wizards isn't committing to future Greyhawk campaign setting material, Perkins admitted that the fans still have a say in the matter. "We're not so immutable with our plans that if the fans rose up and said 'Give us something Greyhawk,' that we would say 'No, never,'" Perkins said. "That won't happen."

Perkins also teased the appearance of more campaign settings in the future. "We absolutely will be exploring new D&D worlds and that door is always open," Perkins said.

 

[Zeromaru X]

I started reading it then dropped it because you can almost hear the condescending tone of the author while reading it.

I almost dropped it when the author began to complain about the inclusion of female rulers. Like, really? In this day an age someone is complaining about that?

 

[Selas]

I almost dropped it when the author began to complain about the inclusion of female rulers. Like, really? In this day an age someone is complaining about that?

I didn't get to that, but that's textbook example of chauvinism

 

[guachi]

I almost dropped it when the author began to complain about the inclusion of female rulers. Like, really? In this day an age someone is complaining about that?

He isn't complaining. He thinks the inclusion is a good thing, in general. That's all well and good. He does complain that they took one of the more interesting female rulers that already exists and make her less interesting.

 

[Zeromaru X]

He considers gender-equality as a "continuity break", while saying that is a bad thing the female rulers can also be villains, while also saying that making all female rulers good would be "ill-suited" for the game (so, basically implying that having female rulers is bad, no matter from which perspective you see it). He then lumps NPC gender-swamps with the "needless changes" to the setting.

In other section, he points out as a negative that the "all-male" Circle of Eight has a female member from the get go, or that certain NPC from the old lore is now a female dwarf.

The only of these complaints I agree with is the change of name of the Scarlet Brotherhood/Order, because I think Nazi-expies should be evil, and evil includes being sexists. But that is mostly because I think Nazi-expies should be cartoonish and doomed to fail.

 

[Selas]

The only of these complaints I agree with is the change of name of the Scarlet Brotherhood/Order, because I think Nazi-expies should be evil, and evil includes being sexists. But that is mostly because I think Nazi-expies should be cartoonish and doomed to fail.

Isn't the Scarlet Brotherhood a KKK expy? From the religious connotations to the clothing, symbols and beliefs? The only thing they share with the Nazis is the takeover of a nation

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Isn't the Scarlet Brotherhood a KKK expy? From the religious connotations to the clothing, symbols and beliefs? The only thing they share with the Nazis is the takeover of a nation

I feel like the Venn diagram has a bit more overlap than that -- like, a key element of both groups.

 

[Stuart Kerrigan]

I didn't get to that, but that's textbook example of chauvinism

No, the points he makes are:-

• Queen Yolande of Celene was a complex character in the original setting. She is a proud and distant character, affected by the loss of her consort to Lortmil orcs a few centuries ago, which spurred her to initiate the brutal Hateful Wars, ultimately causing the fall of the Pomarj. Now she refuses to aid to neighboring lands to avoid further elven deaths. He contrasts this with the new version who is a happy-go-luck ex-adventurer hiring outside PCs to do adventures.
• In the original, Jallazari joined the Circle of Eight, as one of its nine elite wizards - it's a society of wizards, not an adventuring company open to any class with magic abilities - that more resembles its predecessor the Citadel of Eight. In the revised version, however, Jallazari is a warlock who gained her power by making a pact with a Celestial, rather than becoming an archmage through rigorous study. This change arguably reduces the theme of female empowerment in her character.
• The World of Greyhawk boxed set or folio are set in 576 CY. The City of Greyhawk boxed set is set later in 581 CY (which is why Jallazari is a member on probation, replacing Bucknard). The guys making Greyhawk 2024 appear to have smudged them together to make their new 576 CY gazetteer. Incidentally the text in boxed set, which was written in 1989, even has the archmage Tenser call out the fact that the Circle of Eight has until her acceptance been an "old coot's drinking club" or some such.

 

[Stuart Kerrigan]

Isn't the Scarlet Brotherhood a KKK expy? From the religious connotations to the clothing, symbols and beliefs? The only thing they share with the Nazis is the takeover of a nation

Well, that and the fact they believe in the superiority of their suspiciously pale skinned, blonde and blue eyed ethnic group. They're kung-fu fighting Nazis, skilled in espionage and deceit. But yes, they are bad lads.

 

[Zeromaru X]

No, the points he makes are:-

• Queen Yolande of Celene was a complex character in the original setting. She is a proud and distant character, affected by the loss of her consort to Lortmil orcs a few centuries ago, which spurred her to initiate the brutal Hateful Wars, ultimately causing the fall of the Pomarj. Now she refuses to aid to neighboring lands to avoid further elven deaths. He contrasts this with the new version who is a happy-go-luck ex-adventurer hiring outside PCs to do adventures.
• In the original, Jallazari joined the Circle of Eight, as one of its nine elite wizards - it's a society of wizards, not an adventuring company open to any class with magic abilities - that more resembles its predecessor the Citadel of Eight. In the revised version, however, Jallazari is a warlock who gained her power by making a pact with a Celestial, rather than becoming an archmage through rigorous study. This change arguably reduces the theme of female empowerment in her character.
• The World of Greyhawk boxed set or folio are set in 576 CY. The City of Greyhawk boxed set is set later in 581 CY (which is why Jallazari is a member on probation, replacing Bucknard). The guys making Greyhawk 2024 appear to have smudged them together to make their new 576 CY gazetteer. Incidentally the text in boxed set, which was written in 1989, even has the archmage Tenser call out the fact that the Circle of Eight has until her acceptance been an "old coot's drinking club" or some such.

You forgot to mention how continuity breaking was that they gender swapped some of the rulers, while showing (quote) "[...]women can also be autocrats and oligarchs profiting from the exploitation of the peasant classes."

Nothing against the author, really. That's his opinion, and you like what you like. It's just an opinion I don't share. That one and that the setting was destroyed because they added "unthinking uniformity" of [insert new D&D species here].

 

[pemerton]

The World of Greyhawk boxed set or folio are set in 576 CY. The City of Greyhawk boxed set is set later in 581 CY (which is why Jallazari is a member on probation, replacing Bucknard). The guys making Greyhawk 2024 appear to have smudged them together to make their new 576 CY gazetteer. Incidentally the text in boxed set, which was written in 1989, even has the archmage Tenser call out the fact that the Circle of Eight has until her acceptance been an "old coot's drinking club" or some such.

I think I have to count as a big Greyhawk fan. It is my default setting for FRPGing. I've been using it since 1984 (I think it was; maybe 1985 at the latest). I have the Folio, the boxed set, the Five Shall be One modues, From the Ashes, City of Greyhawk, Treasures of Greyhawk, The Adventure Begins, and the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer. My GH shelf also includes a copy of the Rogues Gallery, the Sargent stuff (Iuz, Marklands, City of Skulls), Fate of Istus (not a very good work), Reynolds' Scarlet Brotherhood, the A through G through D modules, etc. I have a copy of Ivid the Undying on my hard drive. I think the only thing I'm missing is a copy of the GH Wars boxed set.

And I could not give two hoots about this change to the Circle of Eight, or Jallazari's backstory. It is so minor, and so easy to incorporate or to ignore as takes the fancy of any particular Greyhawk-er, that it is almost beyond irrelevance. The notion that it is some sort of measure of the quality of work in the current DMG is farcical, in my view.