Dusk - Balancing Spellcasters without their spells.

Michael Morris

First Post
The cleric, druid, sorcerer and wizard are balanced only when their spell lists are considered. Take that away and the cleric sores to become a munchkin's dream character and the druid isn't much better. So then, how to replace or tone down these classes back to the level of a wizard and sorcerer.

I guess it comes down to what should a character get from faith? Freedom from a spellbook for certain. Hmm.. Start with the wizard, but drop the spellbook, maybe the familiar.

Hmm...

For reference, this thread: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=120848
 

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Well lets start by assuming that the Wizard is going to be the baseline caster who eventually gets 9th level spells.

That means that any other caster that have abilties that the wizard does not have must be worse at casting spells for them to be balanced.

That approach works out similar to Monte Cooks Arcana Unearthed that have a couple of physically weak full spellcaster (9th level spells) and other that progress slower at spellcasting (to a maximum of 7th level spells). They on the other hand are either better at physically stronger and/or have good class abilities.

So for instance the Druid have a lot of great class abilities and is decent physical (d8 hp and medium bab). Giving them acces to a unified spell list but using a slower progression (more or less like the bards) could be a start.
 

monboesen said:
That means that any other caster that have abilties that the wizard does not have must be worse at casting spells for them to be balanced.

Only if all spell lists are of equal utility and power, right?
 


I need to know more where you're going with this. I assume that any one caster has access to a main colour out of the five, can secondarily use the two "neighbouring" ones, and can't use the two opposing ones. If that's the case, you need to divide the spells into five very even lists -- even overall, and even at (almost) every level.

Then I need to know what you're thinking of for arcane, divine, and self casters. To me, it would seem like five casting classes would work better -- one for each colour -- which would be the same as in D&D. Or, have it like in Arcana Unearthed, where you have more powerful spellcasting classes, and less powerful ones.

It really depends on where you want to go with this. Please advise!
 

Ok, the spells divide into 5 very even lists. Here they are from Art of Magic (don't recognize a spell's name? It's from that book but I can't release what it does, so just speculate :D )

Black
Abandon Hope, Acid Fog, Acid Rain, Acid Splash, Acidic Blast, Addle, Afflict, Agonizing Memories, Animate Dead, Animate Dead Animals and Vermin, Antilife Shell, Antipathy, Antiplant Shell, Bane, Befoul, Bestow Curse, Blasphemy, Blight, Blindness/Deafness, Blood Pet, Bloodcurdling Scream, Brittle-Bone Curse, Buried Alive, Cause Fear, Chaldulsul’s Hex, Chill Touch, Circle of Death, Clone, Cloudkill, Clutch of Undeath, Command Undead, Contact Other Plane*, Contagion, Control Undead, Corpse Control, Corrosive Burst Weapon, Corrosive Weapon, Create Greater Undead, Create Undead, Crushing Despair, Curse Item, Curse Water, Dancing Vermin, Dark Fate, Dark Ritual, Dark Ritual, Greater, Dark Ritual, Lesser, Darkness, Darkvision, Death Burst, Death Knell, Death Stroke, Deathwatch, Deepen Shadows, Deeper Darkness, Demonic Tutor, Desecrate, Destruction, Diabolic Strength, Dirge of Dread, Discordant Dirge, Diseased Weapon, Dispel Good, Dispel Law, Doom, Drain Life, Dregs of Sorrow, Duress, Energy Drain, Enervation, Evard’s Black Tentacles, Exterminate, Eyebite, False Life, Feeblemind, Final Punishment, Finger of Death, Foul Presence, Gate*, Ghoul Touch, Gloom, Grasping Shadows, Gravestorm, Grievance, Harm, Hatred, Horrid Wilting, Implosion, Imprisonment, Inflict Critical Wounds, Inflict Critical Wounds, Mass, Inflict Light Wounds, Inflict Light Wounds, Mass, Inflict Minor Wounds, Inflict Moderate Wounds, Inflict Moderate Wounds, Mass, Inflict Serious Wounds, Inflict Serious Wounds -Mass, Leech Cunning, Leech Endurance, Leech Grace, Leech Splendor, Leech Strength, Leech Wisdom, Lycanthropic Curse, Magic Jar, Malice, Melf’s Acid Arrow, Necrology, Nightshroud, No Rest for the Wicked, Oppression, Pain Touch, Pain Touch, Greater, Pain Touch, Lesser, Paranoia, Paranoia, Mass, Persecute, Pestilence, Phantasmal Killer, Planar Ally*, Planar Ally, Greater*, Planar Ally, Lesser*, Plane Shift*, Power Word: Blind, Power Word: Kill, Power Word: Stun, Project Image, Puppet Strings, Puppet Strings, Mass, Ray of Enfeeblement, Ray of Exhaustion, Recurring Nightmare, Repel Death, Sadistic Glee, Scare, Serrin’s Shadow Spy, Shades, Shadow Conjuration, Shadow Conjuration, Greater, Shadow Evocation, Shadow Evocation, Greater, Shadow Killer, Shadow Walk, Simulacrum, Sirrom’s Agenda, Sirrom’s Deathgate, Sirrom’s Foul Link, Sirrom’s Foul Transformation, Sirrom’s Impenetrable Darkness, Sirrom’s Retribution, Sirrom’s Spite, Slay Living, Smother, Song of Discord, Soul Bind, Soul Exchange, Speak with Dead, Spectral Hand, Spelldraining Blade, Spreading Plague, Stinking Cloud, Stream of Acid, Stupor, Subversion, Summon Monster I †, Summon Monster II †, Summon Monster III †, Summon Monster IV †, Summon Monster IX †, Summon Monster V †, Summon Monster VI †, Summon Monster VII †, Summon Monster VIII †, Swat, Symbol of Death, Symbol of Fear, Symbol of Pain, Symbol of Weakness, Syphon Soul, Tainted Aether, Terror, Touch of Fatigue, Touch of Idiocy, Transmute Water to Acid, Trap the Soul, Unhallow, Unholy Aura, Unholy Blight, Vampiric Blade, Vampiric Drain, Vampiric Touch, Vile Consumption, Virtue’s Ruin, Wail of the Banshee, Wasting Curse, Waves of Exhaustion, Waves of Fatigue, Weakness, Weird, Will of the Damned, Wilting Curse, Wind of Despair


Blue
Air Walk, Alter Self, Analyze Dweomer, Animate Objects, Animate Rope, Apathy, Arcane Eye, Arcane Sight, Arcane Sight, Greater, Ascertain Value, Astral Projection, Attunement, Augury, Back to Basics, Blink, Blur, Boomerang, Brainstorm, Browse, Buoy, Capsize, Catalogue, Chain Contingency, Chill, Circumvent, Clairaudience/Clairvoyance, Clear Mind, Clearsight, Color Spray, Command, Command, Greater, Comprehend Languages, Compulsion, Conceal Lies, Concentrate, Confiscate, Confusion, Lesser, Contact Other Plane*, Contingency, Control Water, Control Winds, Convince, Counterspell, Create Water, Daze, Daze Monster, Decree, Deep Slumber, Deep Water, Deflection, Delay, Demand, Desertion, Detect Chaos, Detect Evil, Detect Good, Detect Law, Detect Scrying, Detect Secret Doors, Detect Thoughts, Detect Undead, Differentiation, Dimension Door, Discern Location, Discombobulate, Disguise Self, Dispersal Shield, Displace Perspective, Displacement, Dissipate, Divination, Dominate Monster, Dominate Person, Donate, Douse, Drawmij’s Instant Summons, Dream, Elemental Swarm*, Energy Field, Enthrall, Ethereal Jaunt, Etherealness, Fabricate, False Vision, Feather Fall, Find Traps, Fluctuate, Fly, Fly, Mass, Forbid, Force Hull, Force of Will, Force Void, Foresight, Gainsay, Gaseous Form, Gate*, Geas, Lesser, Geas/Quest, Ghost Sound, Glibness, Gust of Wind, Hallucinatory Terrain, Halt, Hesitation, Hydroblast, Hypnotic Pattern, Hypnotism, Identify, Illusions of Grandeur, Illusory Script, Illusory Wall, Imaginary Pet, Imbue with Spell Ability, Intangibility, Invisibility, Invisibility Sphere, Invisibility, Greater, Invisibility, Mass, Jinx, Jump, Legend Lore, Leomund’s Trap, Levitate, Locate Object, Lullaby, Magic Missive, Magic Mouth, Major Creation, Major Image, Make Whole, Manipulate Fate, Mask, Maze, Mental Discipline, Message, Mind Over Matter, Minor Creation, Minor Image, Mirage Arcana, Mirror Image, Mirror Image, Greater, Misdirection, Mishap Shield, Mislead, Mnemonic Absorption, Modify Memory, Moment of Prescience, Mystical Tutor, Necroblast, Obscure Object, Overland Flight, Overland Flight, Mass, Passwall, Permanent Image, Persistent Image, Phantom Steed, Phase Door, Planar Ally*, Planar Ally, Greater*, Planar Ally, Lesser*, Plane Shift*, Power Sink, Prepare Costume, Programmed Image, Propaganda, Prying Eyes, Prying Eyes, Greater, Quash, Quench, Rainbow Pattern, Rary’s Mnemonic Enhancer, Rary’s Telepathic Bond, Ray of Command, Reality Shift, Refresh, Refresh, Mass, Refuge, Refutation, Reigns of Power, Retrieve, Reverse Gravity, Rope Trick, Scintillating Pattern, Screen, Scrying, Scrying, Greater, Sculpt Sound, Second Chance, Secret Page, See Invisibility, Seeming, Sending, Sequester, Serrin’s Phantasm, Serrin’s Phase Step, Serrin’s Theft, Shrink Item, Silence, Silent Image, Sleep, Sleet Storm, Sleight of Mind, Slow, Soar, Soften, Sonar, Spell Blast, Spell Scan, Spell Stealing, Spellstaff, Stifle, Still Touch, Suggestion, Suggestion, Mass, Summon Instrument, Summon Monster I †, Summon Monster II †, Summon Monster III †, Summon Monster IV †, Summon Monster IX †, Summon Monster V †, Summon Monster VI †, Summon Monster VII †, Summon Monster VIII †, Switch Costumes, Symbol of Persuasion, Symbol of Sleep, Tasha’s Hideous Laughter, Taunt, Teleport, Teleport Object, Teleport, Greater, Teleportation Circle, Telsindria’s Belabored Casting, Telsindria’s Intution, Telsindria’s Spelltrap, Telsindria’s Trigger, Temporal Flux, Temporal Stasis, Time Spiral, Time Stop, Time Twister, Time Walk, Time Warp, Tongues, True Seeing, Truthsay, Undetectable Alignment, Unseen Servant, Unsummon, Veil, Ventriloquism, Vision, Water Breathing, Whirlwind, Whispering Wind, Wind Out, Wind Walk, Wind Wall, Wisesay, Word of Recall, Zone of Silence


Green
Abundance, Accelerated Decay, Alacrity, Alluring Scent, Aluren, Animal Growth, Animal Magnetism, Animal Messenger, Animal Scouts, Animal Shapes, Animal Trance, Animal Weaponry, Animate Plants, Armor of Thorns, Avalanche of Squirrels, Awaken, Baleful Polymorph, Barkskin, Bear’s Endurance, Bear’s Endurance, Mass, Bestow Trick, Break Slumber, Bull’s Strength, Bull’s Strength, Mass, Calm Animals, Carapace, Cat’s Grace, Cat’s Grace, Mass, Changestaff, Charm Animal, Charm Monster, Charm Monster, Mass, Charm Person, Chill Metal**, Choking Vines, Cocoon, Commune with Nature, Commune*, Cone of Cold, Contact Other Plane*, Control Plants, Control Weather, Corroding Burst, Create Food & Water, Creeping Doom, Creeping Mold, Crumble, Detect Animals or Plants, Detect Poison, Detect Snares & Pits, Dimensional Anchor, Dimensional Lock, Diminish Plants, Dominate Animal, Eagle’s Splendor, Eagle’s Splendor, Mass, Enlarge Person, Enlarge Person, Mass, Entangle, Evasion, Expeditious Retreat, Faerie Fire, Falling Timber, Familiar Eyes, Find the Path, Fire Shield**, Focus of Hatred, Fog Cloud, Forest Maze, Forest’s Eyes, Form Lock, Fox’s Cunning, Fox’s Cunning, Mass, Freedom of Movement, Frost Weapon, Gate*, Giant Vermin, Giant’s Strength, Giant’s Strength, Mass, Goodberry, Grease, Hide from Animals, Hollow Tree, Horse’s Stamina, Horse’s Stamina, Mass, Ice Storm, Icy Burst Weapon, Insect Plague , Insight, Invisibility Purge, Ishrala’s Summons, Keen Ear, Keen Eye, Know Direction, Lay of the Land, Liveoak, Locate Creature, Longstrider, Magic Fang, Magic Fang, Greater, Magnetism, Magnify Sight, Might of Oaks, Mobilize, Mythic Proportions, Obscuring Mist, One with Nature, Otiluke’s Freezing Sphere, Otto’s Irresistible Dance, Owl’s Wisdom, Owl’s Wisdom, Mass, Pass without Trace, Pixie’s Grace, Pixie’s Grace, Mass, Planar Ally*, Planar Ally, Greater*, Planar Ally, Lesser*, Plane Shift*, Plant Growth, Poison, Polar Ray, Polymorph, Polymorph Any Object, Polymorph, Mass, Quickling’s Grace, Rampage, Ray of Frost, Reduce Animal, Reduce Person, Reduce Person, Mass, Regression, Reincarnate, Rejuvenate, Remove Blindness/Deafness, Remove Disease, Remove Paralysis, Renewal, Renewal, Mass, Repel Vermin, Repel Wood, Retaliate, Rise of the Meek, Root, Rusting Grasp, Rusting Ray, Scent, Seclude, Shambler, Shapechange, Sheltering Branches, Simplify, Siphon Field, Snag, Snare, Snow Walk, Solid Fog, Song of Charm, Sound Shell, Speak with Animals, Speak with Plants, Speaking Shape, Spider Climb, Spike Growth, Splinter, Squirrel Growth, Squirrel Riot, Stampede, Stone’s Endurance, Summer Bloom, Summon Monster I †, Summon Monster II †, Summon Monster III †, Summon Monster IV †, Summon Monster IX †, Summon Monster V †, Summon Monster VI †, Summon Monster VII †, Summon Monster VIII †, Summon Swarm, Surefoot, Surge, Survival of the Fittest, Swarmform, Terix’s Boon, Tiania’s Blessing, Tiania’s Blessing, Mass, Tiania’s Endowment, Tiania’s Enlightenment, Tiania’s Enlightenment, Mass, Tiania’s Greater Splendor, Tiania’s Insight, Tiania’s Sanctuary, Tiania’s Splendor, Tiger’s Prowess, Tiger’s Prowess, Mass, Titan’s Strength, Tranquil Domain, Transference, Transmute Metal to Wood, Transport via Plants, Treant’s Endurance, Treant’s Endurance, Mass, Tree Shape, Tree Stride, Venomous Vines, Vermin Shape, Visualize, Wall of Ice, Wall of Thorns, Warp Wood, Web, Wildshape, Wolf’s Tenacity, Wolf’s Tenacity, Mass, Wood Shape


Red
Aether Flash, Aggravated Assault, Aggression, Amok, Anarchy, Arc Lightning, Backdraft, Ball Lightning, Battle Strain, Bedlam, Bigby’s Clenched Fist, Bigby’s Crushing Hand, Bigby’s Forceful Hand, Bigby’s Grasping Hand, Bigby’s Interposing Hand, Blade Barrier, Blade Storm, Blaze, Bloodlust, Bloodlust, Lesser, Brute Resolve, Burning Hands, Burrowing, Call Lightning, Call Lightning Storm, Chain Lightning, Chaos Ball, Chaos Bolt, Chaos Hammer, Chaotic Strife, Concussive Fireball, Cone of Flame, Confusion, Confusion, Greater, Contact Other Plane*, Continual Flame, Crown of Fire, Delayed Blast Fireball, Devastation, Disintegrate, Dissention in the Ranks, Dry, Earthbind, Earthquake, Elemental Swarm, Explosive Runes, Fanning the Flames, Fire Seeds, Fire Shield, Fire Storm, Fire Trap, Fireball, Fireblast, Firebolt, Firebreathing, Fireform, Fissure, Flame Arrow, Flame Blade, Flame Guide, Flame Strike, Flaming Burst Weapon, Flaming Sphere, Flaming Weapon, Flare, Flaring Pain, Flesh to Stone, Fluctuation, Fork, Freedom from the Masters, Gambit, Gate*, Gratuitous Violence, Hands of Fire, Haste, Heat Metal, Hellfire Blast Weapon, Hellfire Weapon, Ignite, Incendiary, Incendiary Cloud, Incinerate, Insane Jealousy, Insanity, Iron Body, Ironwood, Keen Edge, Knock, Lightning Bolt, Lightning Rift, Magic Missile, Magic Stone, Magic Weapon, Magic Weapon, Greater, Meld into Stone, Meltdown, Meteor Swarm, Mind Burn, No Mercy, No Quarter, Pandemonium, Parch, Planar Ally*, Planar Ally, Greater*, Planar Ally, Lesser*, Plane Shift*, Power Wave, Price of Progress, Prismatic Spray, Produce Flame, Pyroclastic Burst, Pyroclastic Flow, Pyrostatic Field, Pyrotechnics, Quick, Radiate, Rage, Reaching Weapon, Repel Metal or Stone, Repercussion, Retribution, Ring of Fire, Rolling Thunder, Scorching Ray, Shatter, Shattering Pulse, Shatterstorm, Shillelagh, Shocking Burst Weapon, Shocking Grasp, Shocking Weapon, Shockwave, Shout, Shout, Greater, Shower of Coals, Sizzle, Soften Earth & Stone, Song of Blood, Sound Burst, Spellshock, Spike Stones, Spiritual Weapon, Statue, Stone Grasp, Stone Rain, Stone Shape, Stone Tell, Stone to Flesh, Stoneform, Stoneskin, Storm Blast Weapon, Storm of Vengeance, Storm Weapon, Subjectional Gravity, Summon Monster I*, Summon Monster II*, Summon Monster III*, Summon Monster IV*, Summon Monster IX*, Summon Monster V*, Summon Monster VI*, Summon Monster VII*, Summon Monster VIII*, Summon Warlord, Symbol of Insanity, Sympathetic Vibration, Target Lock, Tenser’s Floating Disk, Tenser’s Transformation, Thermal Shock, Thunderbolt, Thunder-Clapping Weapon, Thundering Weapon, Transmute Mud to Rock, Transmute Rock to Lava, Transmute Rock to Mud, True Strike, Twin Hits, Volley of Boulders, Wall of Fire, Wall of Iron, Wall of Lightning, Wall of Stone, Whimsy, Wildcure, Wildfire, Word of Chaos, Yarenic’s Firebolts, Yarenic’s Bloody Flame, Zap, Zone of Chaos


White
Abeyance, Abolish, Abolish, Greater, Absolute Duty, Absolute Grace, Absolute Law, Absolute Reason, Absolute Truth, Aether Slide, Aid, Alarm, Align Weapon, Antimagic Field, Antimagic Shell, Greater, Arcane Lock, Aura of Protection: Black, Aura of Protection: Blue, Aura of Protection: Chaos, Aura of Protection: Evil, Aura of Protection: Good, Aura of Protection: Green, Aura of Protection: Law, Aura of Protection: Red, Aura of Protection: White, Balance, Banishment, Bask, Binding, Black Ward, Bless, Bless Water, Bless Weapon, Blinding Light, Blue Ward, Break Enchantment, Bright Circle, Calm Emotions, Circle of Hands, Cleanse, Common Cause, Consecrate, Contact Other Plane*, Contemplation, Control Revocation, Conviction, Crown of Awe, Crusade, Cure Critical Wounds, Cure Critical Wounds, Mass, Cure Light Wounds, Cure Light Wounds, Mass, Cure Minor Wounds, Cure Moderate Wounds, Cure Moderate Wounds, Mass, Cure Serious Wounds, Cure Serious Wounds, Mass, Dampening Field, Dancing Lights, Daylight, Death Ward, Death Ward, Greater, Delay Poison, Demystify, Dictum, Disanimation, Discern Lies, Disempower, Disenchant, Dismissal, Dispel Chaos, Dispel Evil, Dispel Magic, Dispel Magic, Greater, Dispelling Screen, Disrupt Undead, Disrupting Weapon, Empyrial Armor, Endure Elements, Entropic Shield, Erase, Essence Filter, Eternal Respite, First Strike, Flicker, Flickering Ward, Focus, Forbiddance, Forcecage, Fortify, Freedom, Gate*, Gentle Repose, Glitterdust, Globe of Invulnerability, Globe of Invulnerability, Lesser, Glyph of Warding, Glyph of Warding, Greater, Good Hope, Green Ward, Guards & Wards, Hallow, Halt Undead, Heal, Heal Mount, Heal, Mass, Helping Hand, Heroes’ Feast, Heroism, Heroism, Greater, Hide from Undead, Hold Monster, Hold Monster, Greater, Hold Monster, Mass, Hold Person, Hold Person, Greater, Hold Person, Mass, Hold Portal, Holy, Holy Aura, Holy Missiles, Holy Smite, Holy Sword, Holy Word, Honor the Fallen, Humble, Infusion, Inviolability, Ivory Mask, Last Breath, Leomund’s Secret Chest, Leomund’s Secure Shelter, Leomund’s Tiny Hut, Life Burst, Light, Light of Day, Light of Day, Greater, Limited Resources, Lull, Mage Armor, Mage Armor, Greater, Magic Circle against Chaos, Magic Circle against Evil, Magic Circle against Good, Magic Circle against Law, Magic Vestment, Manifest Probability, Mark of Justice, Matacha’s Edict, Matacha’s Will, Matacha’s Will, Greater, Mending, Mordenkainen’s Disjunction, Mordenkainen’s Faithful Hound, Oathbind, Oathbind, Greater, Order’s Wrath, Otiluke’s Resilient Sphere, Otiluke’s Telekinetic Sphere, Pacifism, Pacifism, Mass, Planar Ally*, Planar Ally, Greater*, Planar Ally, Lesser*, Planar Collapse, Prismatic Sphere, Prismatic Wall, Prophecy, Protection from Arrows, Protection from Chaos, Protection from Energy, Protection from Evil, Protection from Good, Protection from Law, Protection from Spells, Purify, Purify Food & Drink, Raise Dead, Rally, Red Ward, Reflect Gaze, Regenerate, Remove Curse, Remove Fear, Renounce, Replenish, Repulsion, Resistance, Restoration, Restoration, Greater, Restoration, Lesser, Restrain, Resurrection, Reverent Mantra, Reverse Damage, Revive, Righteous Might, Sanctuary, Seal Fate, Searing Light, Sentinel, Sepia Snake Sigil, Serenity, Shidlacri, Shield, Shield of Faith, Shield of Law, Shield Other, Shield Other, Greater, Shield Other, Mass, Shield, Greater, Shield, Greater, Song of Freedom, Song of Holding, Spell Immunity, Spell Immunity, Greater, Spell Lodestone, Spell Resistance, Spell Turning, Spirit Link, Status, Steadfast Heart, Summon Monster I*, Summon Monster II*, Summon Monster III*, Summon Monster IV*, Summon Monster IX*, Summon Monster V*, Summon Monster VI*, Summon Monster VII*, Summon Monster VIII*, Sunbeam, Sunburst, Symbol of Stunning, Sympathy, Talisiasia’s Insight, Telsindria’s Aura, Telsindria’s Blessing, Telsindria’s Invulnerable Globe, Telsindria’s Radiance, Telsindria’s Reflection, Telsindria’s Spell Immunity, Trancendence, True Resurrection, Undeath to Death, Unquestioned Authority, Vigilance, Vindicate, Virtue, Vivify, Wall of Force, Ward from Rain, Wave of Reckoning, White Fire, White Ward, Worship, Zone of Truth

Just by names, you should be able to gather that each type has a personality and ethos and that the spells the type has support that ethos and those goals.

Now, each individual spell will have an acquisistion cost. In general, the more powerful a spell is or attuned to the goal of it's source type the more specific the cost is to that type. This will work not unlike the cards, but be more consistent.

For example, all 9th level spells have a cost that totals 10 (their level +1). A general use spell might be costed 9C (C is short for "color" when a specific color - W,U,B,R,G - isn't noted). For example, Astral Projection is 9U because, although blue, it isn't that specific (all of the classes capacle of 9th level spells in the PHB have it). Fireball is 2RR. The more colors specified the more spheres of the same color a caster must have.

A spellcaster begins play with one chosen sphere and one sphere controlled by his alignment. Each time he gains a new level of spells, he gains a new sphere. To acquire a spell you must have the spheres that match it.

Rheros is a 5th level spellcaster with spheres WGR. He's a free spirit, very Shunrian, so he has a R for alignment. He can cast fireball (2RR) Mage Armor (1W) or Bear's Endurance (2G), but not Cure Light Wounds (WW), Entangle (GG), or a spell costed 1RRR.

Hence, while in theory you can eventually learn any spell, in practice you can't.

I haven't costed all the spells (a Herculean task that I don't really want to do alone but no one will help me). Further, much of the system's balance hinges on the costing. However, if it's pulled off correctly this allows for a very flexiable way of allocating the various spells in the game.
 

Ughh.

Thats a very mechanical and complicated way of doing things. Too much work for such small gains IMO. I think i would go about it in another way. Perhaps restricting Priests and Druids from certain colors of magic that conflicts with their ethos. And attaching maximum spell level known to the level you gained acces to a color of magic somehow.

That way, for instance, a Wizard may only ever learn the highest level of spells in the two colors he knows at first level. And he will be able to cast lower level spells from other colors in a way that is proportioned with the level he gained acces to that color. If you consider each color of equal power it should work.
 

I've tried that, but it shoehorns characters a bit too much. Also, in MtG you have 5 color creatures and creature with opposite colors for their summoning (and presumably their alignment). Hence to be true to the inspiration point you have to leave the door open to manipulating opposing philosophies.

I believe that once the main work has been done the system shouldn't be hard to use or pick up. It would require a lot of reading and study to power game though. Besides, I'm a firm believer that you get back what you put in to any project.
 

Okay, I think I get the alignment thing. I'm still not clear what you want to do with spellcasting classes. For me, with that sort of system, I'd either have a single caster class only, or do something like Arcana Unearthed. Since the magic system has nothing to do with the Core rules, I wouldn't even try to make the core classes match up with this. They'd need a total redesign, anyway. AU is already set up to handle a single spell list with its classes, so it would need less reworking.
 

Well, part of my problem is nodding towards what's already written about the setting. There are cleric, druid, wizard and sorcerer characters in Dusk. Whatever I come up with needs to acknowledge this.

Well, I've had a prestige class approach to the same problem that's worked well for about a year. In the end, I may just stick with that.
 

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