DuskBlades and Prestige Classes

[dagger]

Maybe lots of folk you know. I've haven't had anyone I know try to claim that it let's them learn and cast spells not on their list.

No one I 'know' has taken it, but lots of folks on wizards use it that way.

The feat description supports the rulling as well.

 

[dagger]

The original version from Tome and Blood specifically said from your spell list. I would contend that calling it "extra spell" not "extra and very different spell" implies it is only intended to increase how MANY spells you know, not what KIND of spells you know.

I am just going by what the feat says, and it does not forbid it.

 

[JiCi]

This is *not* a "the Duskblade is too powerful" thread (I hope), but I was wondering if anyone noticed that there seems to be a lack of synergy between the Duskblade class and a lot of the popular gish prestige classes.

Bladesinger doesn't work well with the Duskblades armored mage ability and the shield usage.

Spellsword seems to be a duplication of abilities too (reduction in ASF)

The only one I can think of that would work fairly well is Raumathari Battlemage - near full spellcaster level progression, ability to use a bastard sword in place of a material component and get a benefit to spell DC for it.

Other than that, I can't really think of any Prestige Classes that fit the Duskblade and still provide some kind of caster level progression.

Am I missing something or does this class not seem to work really well with all the existing "gish-type" prestige classes?

You're right about PrCs. The duskblade pretty much fills every level.

The spellsword from Complete Warrior is good for the spell channeling features, which extends to ANY spell, not just touch spells. The arcane spell failure ignorance is most useless, since you ignore up to medium armor and heavy shield.

The arcane archer from DMG isn't much worthy either. You don't have a spell progression, but your spell channling can now apply to bows.

The eldritch knight from DMG is to forget. No features, except for a single fighter feat.

As for the Extra Spell feat, you can select any spell according to your spell class: arcane & divine. Like the Extra Power feat, which you can choose from Psion and Psychis Warrior powers, you can do the same with Extra Spell.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I am just going by what the feat says, and it does not forbid it.

But again - if you're just going by what the feat says, it doesn't add the spell to your class list, and if you are a member of a class who can cast spells drawn from your class list, the fact that you have learned a spell not on that list does not allow you to cast a spell on that list.

If you're just going by what the feat says, it doesn't say you can cast it just because you've learned it.

-Hyp.

 

[Question]

I made a fighter 4/duskblade 2/arcane archer 10 yesterday. Full bab all the way, very nice saves. The only problem is the dusk blade spells arent really suited to a arcane archer....best choices i managed to get were true strike, ray of enfleeblement and expeditious retreat.

 

[Diirk]

Out of curiosity, what does the Duskblade's "Spells" entry say?

The Wizard, for example, states "Spells: A wizard casts arcane spells which are drawn from the sorcerer/ wizard spell list."

If the Duskblade states "Spells: A duskblade casts arcane spells which are drawn from the duskblade spell list", then I'd agree that yes, Extra Spell lets him learn Wraithstrike, but it does not say it adds the spell to your spell list... therefore while the Duskblade knows the spell, he cannot cast the spell, since it is not drawn from the duskblade spell list.

-Hyp.

I don't have the book the duskblade is in, but if you take for instance the sorceror: "A sorcerer casts arcane spells which are drawn primarily from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. He can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time, the way a wizard or a cleric must (see below)."

Two things stand out. A sorcerer casts primarily sorceror spells, which suggests there's a possibility he can cast others. It also states that he can cast any spell he knows. So it would follow that if a sorcerer managed to somehow learn a non-sorceror spell he could cast it without restriction. Sounds like extra spell would work for a sorcerer, at least.

In comparison, the wizard is lacking that 'primarily' word, and there's no phrasing saying he can prepare any spell he knows. The bard doesn't have the primarily word either, but it does state he can cast any spell he knows.

 

[Sejs]

I don't have the book the duskblade is in, but if you take for instance the sorceror: "A sorcerer casts arcane spells which are drawn primarily from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. He can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time, the way a wizard or a cleric must (see below)."

Just providing the relevent text regarding the duskblade and their spells~

"You can cast spells that are drawn from the duskblade spell list on page 98. You can cast any spell you know without preparing it ahead of time."

(and)

"You begin play knowing two 0-level spells and two 1st level spells, chosen from the duskblade spell list. You also know an additional 0-level spell for each point of Intelligence bonus. Each time you gain a new class level, you learn one additional spell of any level you can cast, chosen from the duskblade spell list."

 

[Hypersmurf]

Two things stand out. A sorcerer casts primarily sorceror spells, which suggests there's a possibility he can cast others. It also states that he can cast any spell he knows. So it would follow that if a sorcerer managed to somehow learn a non-sorceror spell he could cast it without restriction. Sounds like extra spell would work for a sorcerer, at least.

That's why any time Thanee advances the "wizard can cast spells drawn from the sorcerer/wizard spell list" in an Extra Spell thread, I throw in "Go on, do the sorcerer!"

You can cast spells that are drawn from the duskblade spell list on page 98. You can cast any spell you know without preparing it ahead of time.

So, the question is whether those are two restrictions, or two allowances. If they were two allowances, it would mean you could cast a/ any spell you know, or b/ spells drawn from the duskblade list whether or not you know them. This seems unlikely, so they must be restrictions.

Which means that you can cast spells that fulfil both requirements: a/ drawn from the duskblade spell list, and b/ that you know.

A cleric spell learned through the Extra Spell feat is a spell you know, but not a spell drawn from the duskblade spell list, and therefore cannot be cast... any more than you can cast a spell drawn from the duskblade list that you do not know.

-Hyp.

 

[rgard]

I got those builds off the Optimization boards over at Wizards....






Extra Spell does not say it has to be on your spell list.

You learn an additional Spell.
Prereq: Caster Level 3rd.
Benefit: You learn one additional spell at any level up to one lower than the highest level of spell you can currently cast. Thus, a 4th-level sorcerer (Maximum spell level 2nd) Gains a new 0-level or 1st-level spell known with which to expand her repertoire. For classes such as wizard that have more options for learning spells, Extra Spell is generally used to learn a specific spell that a character lacks access to and would be unable to research.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Each time you learn a new spell at any level up to one level lower than the highest level of spell you can cast.

Ok, the above feat aside. If you had a multi-class Duskblade/Cleric, could the character deliver Divine Touch Spells (ones he/she knows from the Cleric levels) through the sword via Arcane Channeling? Yes, I know it is called 'Arcane' Channeling, but this Duskblade does 'know and is able to cast' divine touch spells.

I'm tempted to make the ability a new Feat, but what do you all think?

Thanks,
Rich

 

[rgard]

Ok, the above feat aside. If you had a multi-class Duskblade/Cleric, could the character deliver Divine Touch Spells (ones he/she knows from the Cleric levels) through the sword via Arcane Channeling? Yes, I know it is called 'Arcane' Channeling, but this Duskblade does 'know and is able to cast' divine touch spells.

I'm tempted to make the ability a new Feat, but what do you all think?

Thanks,
Rich

Here is the feat I have in mind for this:

DIVINE CHANNELING

You are able to deliver Divine touch spells through your weapon.

Prerequisites: Arcane Channeling (SU), Ability to cast 1st level Divine Spells​

Benefit: In addition to your Duskblade touch spells, you are able to deliver Divine touch spells you know from your divine class levels through your weapon.​

Normal: You can only deliver Duskblade touch spells through your weapon.​

Special: If you have more than one Divine spell casting class you must decide which class you will use with this feat. You can select this feat multiple times, but it applies to a different divine class's touch spells each time you take the feat.​