Dwarves rock, Half-orcs suck! - An analysis

[Klaus]

Die Kluge, would you mind running your numbers through these two half-orc variants I wrote? They're at: http://www.fierydragon.com/DB/DB_MAY27_2004.htm

I think the +2 Str is vastly overestimated. They say "Oh, when you have Str 20, no one will care about your skills!". But to have that Str 20, you must have assigned an 18 to Str! An elf barbarian, using the same build (and assigning the same numbers to the same stats) would have Str 18.

So, in the end, +2 Str really is just "+1 to hit and damage, slightly greater carrying capacity, +1 to a few skills". To me that balances well with just -2 Int, which results in "-4 skill points at 1st level, -1 skill point per level, 1 less language, -1 to a few skills".

 

[CRGreathouse]

So, in the end, +2 Str really is just "+1 to hit and damage, slightly greater carrying capacity, +1 to a few skills". To me that balances well with just -2 Int, which results in "-4 skill points at 1st level, -1 skill point per level, 1 less language, -1 to a few skills".

Str is +2 damage with a 2-handed weapon when your base Strength is 12, 13, 16, or 17. Similarly, Int is only -1 language if your base Int is >= 12, and only a loss of skill points (for fighters and similarly unskilled classes) when base Int is at least 10.

 

[Thanee]

Well, -2 to Charisma has no penalty whatsoever (well -1 to Intimidate ) and -2 to Intelligence only gives -1 skill point per level and possibly -1 starting language.

Bye
Thanee

 

[TheEvil]

Well, -2 to Charisma has no penalty whatsoever (well -1 to Intimidate ) and -2 to Intelligence only gives -1 skill point per level and possibly -1 starting language.

Bye
Thanee

I notice that the point cost also didn't address the cost of playing a half-orc that other players have to pay. The shear number of 'What do you mean the skinny sorcerer/rogue/bard is more intimidating then my big, bad, ugly, halitosis-ridden half-orc barbarian!?!?!?' complaints alone should be worth another -5 or 10.

 

[DMH]

Looking at this thread, I wonder if I should allow players to gain the 1st level half-orc features in Shaping the Self (Genjitsu)- scent (15') and additional proficiencies for free and add a new 3rd level.

 

[Klaus]

Half-orcs got the shaft so much...

 

[Klaus]

... they deserve a TRIPLE post!

 

[Klaus]

Let's put it like this:

Elf Barbarian1: Str 15 Dex 13+2=15 Con 14-2=12 Int 8 Wis 12 Cha 10
Skill Points: (4-1)x4 = 12. Low-light vision, +2 Search/Spot/Listen/Enchant. saves, Immune to magical sleep. Feat: Power Attack. Atk +3 Greatsword (2d6+3). AC 13 (leather + Dex). HP 13.

Half-Orc Barbarian1: Str 15+2=17 Dex 13 Con 14 Int 8-2=6 Wis 12 Cha 8
Skill Points: (4-2)x4 = 8. Darkvision. Feat: Power Attack. Atk +4 Greatsword (2d6+4). HP 14.

That +2 Str isn't making much of a difference (15 vs. 17 Str). Just as much as the -2 Int (8 vs. 6). When the special abilities factor in, the half-orc is clearly short-handed.

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

I notice that the point cost also didn't address the cost of playing a half-orc that other players have to pay. The shear number of 'What do you mean the skinny sorcerer/rogue/bard is more intimidating then my big, bad, ugly, halitosis-ridden half-orc barbarian!?!?!?' complaints alone should be worth another -5 or 10.

Your ugly barbarian is scary perhaps, but isn't very intimidating, in the sense that he isn't capable of coercing people to his will. The highly charismatic character's "we have ways of making you talk" will produce better resuslts than "Blargh! Me eat your spine! Raaargh!"

AR

 

[Henry]

That +2 Str isn't making much of a difference (15 vs. 17 Str). Just as much as the -2 Int (8 vs. 6). When the special abilities factor in, the half-orc is clearly short-handed.

All things considered, just looking at the stats themselves, the STR is negating two points of DEX and CON in combat, whereas DEX or CON only negate STR. In addition, when talking about barbarians, STR is far more important than INT, when you are only missing one skill point per level (I would have put the 10 in the INT, by the way, not CHA, since it makes even less use to a barbarian). This is why it's rated higher.

Most mental scores I would rate slightly lower than physical stats, with a STR score getting the highest rating. The difference, however, would be in this above system by like 5 points at most. I agree the Half-orc and dwarf still come out skewed versus the other classes. The Dwarf doesn't need all that stuff, and the Half-orc needs slightly more.