[e20 PF] And with strange aeons...

[WarlockLord]

(OOC - This probably belongs in the TtT thread, but just for comparison purposes, a DC of 35 at level 20 is actually really high. Given that your max ability score bonus will be +13, max spell level bonus is 9, with both ranks of Spell Focus that means the best DC a PC can get is 36, and that's savagely optimized. It's quite literally impossible to boost a DC higher than that without weird adders like the gnome Illusion DC boost. So yeah...35 is really good. )

OOC: 34, actually. 10+13+9+2.

 

[fireinthedust]

[sblock=DCs and suchnot]huh. Oh, okay. Duly noted. DC33 for everything then!

Question: but what about Thaddeius' rolls? He's whipped out some high numbers. I'm not hating, I just want to know how to do that, so I can do it when my time comes (as a mage).

And it's okay for here as long as it's ooc. Maybe Sblocks are better for this stuff.[/sblock]

 

[WarlockLord]

[sblock=OOC]I find it's easiest to whip out the high saves by copius multiclassing through classes that give "+1 level of existing spellcasting," such as Wizard 5/Mindbender 1/Incantatrix 10/Archmage 4 or somesuch for 3.5, or Wizard 7/Loremaster 10/Archmage 3 for PF. Haven't done that here because none of the wizard PrCs appealed to me (I dislike archmage, and I'm not sure loremaster fits the concept. Not sure what Thadieus did, though.[/sblock]

 

[Aldern Foxglove]

Thaddeus's illusory double vanishes, but the mage himself remains invisible, and uneffected by the disjunction to his relief.

[sblock=High Numbers]I'm not sure precisely what you are referring to, but...

SR 1d20+27 = 21 CL (+1 for Ioun Stone), +2 Elven Magic, +2 Spell Penetration, +2 Greater Spell Penetration.

Dispel Magic = 21 CL + 4 Greater Dispel Magic

Saves I've just taken every bonus I could luck, competence, etc. I don't think his saves are particularly good. There's an Ioun stone that gives a +1 competence bonus to saves, and the Luck Blade gives a +1 Luck Bonus.

His max spell DC is 32.

As for multiclassing to PRCing to get higher saves it does not really work in PF check their save bonuses have been drastically reduced, so it does not really giove you a boost to take one anymore.

Counterspell: This functions as dispel magic, but you receive a +4 bonus on your dispel check to counter the other spellcaster's spell.

[/sblock]

 

[jackslate45]

Xanfire swears out loud as the shield and ring he purchased vanished in the wake of the powerful spell. He also feels the weight of his Armor increase greatly, and nearly topples over from the weight as his belt, ring, and armor's glow fades away.

[sblock=Saves]
33 is really high, ouch.
Will Saves:
Gerrard: 15 - 18 or higher
Hedron: 17 - 16 or higher
Thadeius: Counter-spell saves lives. (23 - 10 or higher)
Thorn: 15 - 18 or higher
Malacarus: 17 - 18 or higher
Xanfire: 27 - 6 or higher

[/sblock]

 

[Aldern Foxglove]

[sblock=DCs]
A DC of 33 does seem very high when we consider that none of Paizos monsters, or the home brewed monsters on the PFSRDs DCs exceed 30. And in order to reach 30 we have to look at CR 36.[/sblock]

 

[WarlockLord]

[sblock=ooc]

I'm not sure precisely what you are referring to, but...

SR 1d20+27 = 21 CL (+1 for Ioun Stone), +2 Elven Magic, +2 Spell Penetration, +2 Greater Spell Penetration.

Dispel Magic = 21 CL + 4 Greater Dispel Magic

Saves I've just taken every bonus I could luck, competence, etc. I don't think his saves are particularly good. There's an Ioun stone that gives a +1 competence bonus to saves, and the Luck Blade gives a +1 Luck Bonus.



His max spell DC is 32.

As for multiclassing to PRCing to get higher saves it does not really work in PF check their save bonuses have been drastically reduced, so it does not really giove you a boost to take one anymore.

I keep finding annoying little things all throughout the PF rules that seem to have been changed solely for the sake of making changes, like the save bonuses, negative levels no longer erasing spells, the extremely selective spell nerfs, (finger of death is wrong...but flesh to stone is A-OK!) The save bonus multiclassing was really the only way to get high-level saves so you weren't completely screwed when the SoDs started getting flung around (that and immunities). So now...heh, we can sit back and all die.

On an unrelated note, what happens to a blessed book which is dispelled, or, more appropriately, the spells inside?
[/sblock]

 

[Scott DeWar]

[sblock=ooc]

On an unrelated note, what happens to a blessed book which is dispelled, or, more appropriately, the spells inside?
[/sblock]

[sblock=ooc-blessed book] wow, that is a nasty affair as there are 1000 pages from using the secret page spell.[/sblock]

 

[Aldern Foxglove]

[sblock=PF Changes]I wholeheartedly disagree making it so that you had to multclass an PRC to get decent saves was terrible, PF has quite rightly made single classed characters just as powerful as those with half a dozen classes. Monsters in PF have noticably lower DCs in almost all cases making things much better imo.

The spell changes are mostly sensible, though there are a few effective save or dies left they are ones that a PC can be restored from - and thus much less problematic. Think of it from a used against the PCs point of view, Finger of Death is dangerous, but probably not an insta kill for most characters Flesh to Stone puts you out of the battle, but you can be cheaply restored instead of having to pay of thousands in diamond dust, for a revival.[/sblock]

[sblock=Blessed Book]
I'd treat it like an extra dimensional space, you simply don't have access to the spells until it is back in action - spells in the book not your prepared spells which you would obviously retain full access to.[/sblock]

 

[WarlockLord]

[sblock=reply to PF changes]
Not saying 3.5 had it right, just saying you had a semi-decent option to not die. It wasn't good design by any stretch of the imagination (yes, let's encourage players even more to find all the free stuff we built into the system, while punishing casual gamers!) But my point here is that there are still enough save-or-sucks that can remove PCs or monsters outright (blindness/deafness, hideous laughter, polymorph any object, enchantment etc), enemies with PC classes can still rock the same high DCs (I assume NPCs are still constructed via PC methods), and now everyone's saves suck against an evil elf wizard with greater spell focus rocking a save DC of 34. Said elf wizard could drop weird on the party, probably insta-gibbing quite a few PCs now that all save DCs are knocked down to single-class levels. And if he's a gnome sorceror rather than the elf, thats 35. Easily enough to probably one-shot half our party, and if he has a greater rod of quickening the party will probably go down in one round. Mind blank I believe will block it, but that's pretty hard to get if you aren't a wizard or sorceror. There's also polymorph any object, if we can get by with creature => corpse of said creature which I believe would be permanent. (+11 to duration factor, so yeah).

BTW fireinthedust, please don't get any ideas from ^. Malacarus has the mind blank spell (or did until this round), and we don't want to all die.

And I fear we're derailing the game with our PF math analysis, but I'd be willing to discuss this more on the TtT thread.
[/sblock]