[E6 Class] Dervish

[Zelc]

Looks good!

 

[Asurya]

well, I liked the "always on" better, or at least the "per encounter", but perhaps it's just because I hate the "per day" things so much...

quote Kunimatyu: My thought: Roll Perform(dance), deal that much bonus Rend damage. Simple, and can be tweaked fairly high in E6 if the player wants to focus on it.
this is just Insightful strike (ToB, Diamond mind rank 3 strike) with a different skill, that means it's good and balanced I think.

I don't get the
quote Zelc: I'm a fan of being x/day abilities in E6, since that automatically creates the opportunity for a feat that can be taken an infinite number of times.
what do you find so good in the "per day" mechanic? (I'm genuinely interested to know)
as for the rest of you question: Combat focus feats (PHb2) seems just like you ask for.

 

[Zelc]

what do you find so good in the "per day" mechanic? (I'm genuinely interested to know)

In E6, they allow you to create an "Extra Dervish Dance" feat which is useful and can be taken an infinite number of times so your player doesn't end up running out of feats to take except for Toughness .

 

[Asurya]

I understand what you want, but I'm still convinced that all "per day" mechanisms are flawed from the start.

Let me explain: give something "per day" (be it spells, special ablities, whatever you like) necesseraly means that you balace things with a certain amount of encounter per day, it also means (at least meant in WotC mind 'til not so long ago) that you can make that particular thing powerful (as in VERY powerful).
This leads to the nova thing (also known as the "5-rds adventure day")
This can only be good *IF* you play by the rules the designers meant. So:
- if you like gerilla-like campaign, all your "per day" players will feel useless because, even with a drastic resource management, they will run dry pretty soon (compared to the adventure's length)
- reverse case: if your style is more careful planning and single encounter followed by some recovery time, you're also screwed 'case this time it's the "always on" type of guys that cry out loud!

This is why WotC changed its mind and head toward "per encounter" or "always on" mechanisms (Warlock, Psionic focus already present in pretty old materials; even more visible in newer products: MoI, ToB, ToM, reserve feats).
Aside from being able to be useful all day long, these systems are far less powerful than their "per day" counterparts, so far less easy to break.

 

[Zelc]

I guess, although it's kind of hard to nova with Dervish Dance. Your choice.

 

[Shazman]

Greater two weapon fighting might be a bit much even for a capstone ability. In normal 3.5, it requires a BAB of +11, dex 19 +, plus the other two weapon fighting feats. I would move improved two weapon fighting to 6th level instead. It normally requires a +6 BAB, dex 17 +, and TWF.

 

[Kunimatyu]

Greater two weapon fighting might be a bit much even for a capstone ability. In normal 3.5, it requires a BAB of +11, dex 19 +, plus the other two weapon fighting feats. I would move improved two weapon fighting to 6th level instead. It normally requires a +6 BAB, dex 17 +, and TWF.

Oh, my bad -- that's what I meant.

The debate between per-day and per-encounter mechanics is tricky -- in this case, I really like the strategy of the Rending Finish, because you can get bonus damage (and you don't have to declare the Finish until you hit with both, so it's a sure thing), but at the cost of your Dervish Dance for the rest of the encounter. That sort of tactical consideration really makes it interesting, in my eyes. The catch is that a player who's used all of his Dervish Dance full-attacks for the day has no reason not to Rending Finish when he can, so if I was to rewrite the class, I would probably change things around so that the Dervish doesn't really have TWF-per se, just an at-will Dervish Dance ability that lets him get two hits in at full BAB while he's moving.

Is there any interest in a rewrite?

 

[Asurya]

quote Kunimatyu: in this case, I really like the strategy of the Rending Finish, because you can get bonus damage (and you don't have to declare the Finish until you hit with both, so it's a sure thing), but at the cost of your Dervish Dance for the rest of the encounter. That sort of tactical consideration really makes it interesting, in my eyes.
my point exactly

quote Kunimatyu: The catch is that a player who's used all of his Dervish Dance full-attacks for the day has no reason not to Rending Finish when he can
yes, although it's metagame, I bet that's what will happen.

quote Kunimatyu: so if I was to rewrite the class, I would probably change things around so that the Dervish doesn't really have TWF-per se, just an at-will Dervish Dance ability that lets him get two hits in at full BAB while he's moving.
Is there any interest in a rewrite?
oh yes! this could be a very interesting concept: your class focus makes you powerful so when you loose your rythm, you loose a lot.
I would list several condition that kicks you out of your "trance" (stunned, dazed, bullrushed), and you have to take a full-rd action to get back in (with the proper Perform[dance] check, a king of psionic focus if you like) and make the finishing move kick you out of it in such a way that you cannot "refresh" it before next encounter (the one meinute meditation idea is great for that I think)

quote comrade raoul: After you dance, you're fatigued for a number of rounds equal to the length of the dance. (Pick when you dance carefully!)
I think this is a good idea for a balancing factor,
but I would let the Cha to AC out of the class.