E6? Is it your cup of tea?

[Nifft]

Not really interested. If the PCs have no hope of toppelling the Lich-King of Bazad-Lighur, what motivation do I have of statting him up?

And if I'm never rewarded for satting up the Lich-King of Bazad-Lighur, something is wrong with the world.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

That said, Nifft, Rycanada's talked about ways to stat up a lich-king in E6. It seems workable.

He uses the Bone Creature Template and then adds loads of feats that enhance the lich-king flavor without breaking the level cap.

I haven't started an E6 campaign, yet, but if you start out with the metagame assumptions that 6th level plus endless bonus feats is the limit, a lot of interesting creatures are possible. Especially if the Gestalt variant from Unearthed Arcana is used. Some of the creatures that can be devised aren't possible in standard 3.5 d20.

Different paradigms yield different world-building parameters that can tell similar stories with different rules assumptions.

 

[Warren Okuma]

That said, Nifft, Rycanada's talked about ways to stat up a lich-king in E6. It seems workable.

He uses the Bone Creature Template and then adds loads of feats that enhance the lich-king flavor without breaking the level cap.

I haven't started an E6 campaign, yet, but if you start out with the metagame assumptions that 6th level plus endless bonus feats is the limit, a lot of interesting creatures are possible. Especially if the Gestalt variant from Unearthed Arcana is used. Some of the creatures that can be devised aren't possible in standard 3.5 d20.

Different paradigms yield different world-building parameters that can tell similar stories with different rules assumptions.

A lich, that's not a lich, but is actually a bone creature that casts... fireballs? Fake liches pretending to be real lichs? Nope. Not for me.

I like the real liches casting real spells, like time stop. I like leaking the lich's tactic and force the PC's to think.

And you can't use about a third of the critters and 60% of printed spells, and 60% of magic items, ick. You can't use a whole bunch of LA races and stuffs. It's too confining.

 

[Will]

Except the third and 60% that you can use you get to KEEP using. This might not be good in your book, but it's good in mine; if nothing else, I can get a handle on how they work, and then develop things like a dozen variations of giant spider (this one can fly, this one is invisible, this one casts Lightning Bolt) even discounting the effect of templates.

As for liches... um... it's a concept. The lich in the book is just an implementation of the idea of an arcanist who has achieved immortality at any price.

I guess I'm a kitbasher at heart; the idea that a specific listing is real and any other variation isn't strikes me as odd.

 

[Psion]

No interest, don't see what the hubbub is about.

Back in the days of 1e, I pored through the books and saw all these neat high level spells and abilities... but a certain subset of the players never seemed to want to go past level 7-9. And in 2e, my experience with the rules sort of crumbled when they went too far beyond 10th.

But 3e was, at last, a game for me that would function all the way to 20th level. And I did. I ran a major campaign starting at first and up to 20th... and it was everything I hoped it would be. Wide-eyed high fantasy action at its finest. Why some folks want to stop that experience when things are just getting good (to me, the game just starts getting good at 6th, not ends) is not something I relate to.

 

[GlassJaw]

I think the E6 concept is awesome. I love what the goal of the system is - it's exactly the style of game I like to play.

I've checked out the rules but I'm not sure I'd use them as-is. If anything, I'd probably just stick with Grim Tales, which basically accomplishes the same thing but it's a more "finalized" system in that it doesn't require a lot of rules changes to an already existing ruleset.

I think E6 has some awesome ideas though. Nice work overall.

 

[GlassJaw]

Why some folks want to stop that experience when things are just getting good (to me, the game just starts getting good at 6th, not ends) is not something I relate to.

Because some people don't want their fantasy games to turn into a medieval supers game, that's why. To me, things stop getting good and more obnoxious and annoying at around level 12. For me (as a player AND as DM), the game is most fun from levels 4-8ish.

 

[Psion]

Because some people don't want their fantasy games to turn into a medieval supers game, that's why.

I really wasn't soliciting explanations; I was explaining my vote.

Further, I know you probably didn't it mean it that way, but "medieval supers" strikes me as a snarky little zinger that communicates little more than your disdain for something I like, and in doing, invites a playstyle debate. I wasn't judging you, so don't judge me.

 

[GlassJaw]

snarky little zinger

Nah, not snarky. Just explaining why people like E6. You seemed surprised that people would like a system like this.

 

[Imp]

As for liches... um... it's a concept. The lich in the book is just an implementation of the idea of an arcanist who has achieved immortality at any price.

I guess I'm a kitbasher at heart; the idea that a specific listing is real and any other variation isn't strikes me as odd.

You could include a by-the-book lich in an E6 game, he's just going to be Sauron basically, and to bring him down you'd have to find some plot-type method that doesn't involve letting him get to roll initiative against you. One feature of the E6 concept is that some entities may exist that are just completely beyond your powers.

But yeah there's no reason that a given monster listing is "the real thing." For example re vampires I found it simplest just to cast wights as the new vampires.

(It's not as though undead creatures don't conceptually overlap in 60 bazillion ways anyway. You mean to tell me the bzvlk is created when an exceptionally evil soul dies? No kidding, right?)