E6: The Game Inside D&D (new revision)

[Shazman]

I agree. Getting to sixth level in 3.5 D&D does happen relatively quickly, but I wouldn't slow advancement to such a crawl. Character advancement is one of the main driving factors of D&D. It is one of the most entertaining and rewarding aspects of playing. If you have to play once a week for hours at a time for 6 months to get from 1st to 2nd level, you have removed one of the most enjoyable aspects of the game. That may work for you and your group, but it will most likely be rejected by most groups. "Freezing" advancement in the 6th to 9th level range preserves the "sweet spot" of the game.

 

[HeinorNY]

The problem with gaining feats throughout the advancement to 6th level is that you change the fundamental assumption of this idea.

The original idea was that a sweet spot exists at 6th to 9th level. this is where most players have the most fun. So getting to 6th level early is a good idea. Then the issue arrises that after power level higher than 9th, it becomes more work and book keeping for all involved, and the fun diminishes. So the level cap solves this.

Your idea would solve the higher power level problem, but not the issue that it is still more fun to play between levels 6 and 9.

The strength of E6 is that it allows early advancement to 6th, but prolongs the sweet spot for gaming. I like the original much better.

I understand and agree with you. As you said, the sweet point is between levels 6 and 9 but that's also very subjective and depends on the group.
I have a question BTW, if the point is to make characters have an ECL 10, why not just cap the level at 10? If 6 is the sweet spot, then giving lots of more feats won't eventually make character more powerful anyway, only in a different way?
While I'm asking these question I try to answer them, because I want to understand the concept behind E6. Prolly the answer is that by capping the game at level 6 and then only giving feats to characters, you would effectively raise the power lvl to ECL 10, but in a different way that keeps the low-fantasy flavor of the game.
But if the sweet spot is at lvl 6 plus feats, then why not just starting the game at lvl 6 anyway? Why force the player to pass through all the 5 levels of boredom before it?

As I said, it's all a matter of taste. I'll prolly use my idea because I want to keep the level advancement as part of the fun of the game. My group enjoy leveling up, at any level, 1st to 2nd is as fun as 15th to 16th. The espectative to reach a new level is an important part of the overall fun of my group, so I want to keep it lasting as long as possible.

 

[HeinorNY]

I agree. Getting to sixth level in 3.5 D&D does happen relatively quickly, but I wouldn't slow advancement to such a crawl. Character advancement is one of the main driving factors of D&D. It is one of the most entertaining and rewarding aspects of playing. If you have to play once a week for hours at a time for 6 months to get from 1st to 2nd level, you have removed one of the most enjoyable aspects of the game. That may work for you and your group, but it will most likely be rejected by most groups. "Freezing" advancement in the 6th to 9th level range preserves the "sweet spot" of the game.

I hope you understand that your bolded statements are opposite to each other. You can't have them both. Or you have advancement, or you have the game frozen at the sweet spot.
The original idea kills, as you said, one of the main driving factors of D&D. In exchange it adds the possibility to keep the game running at the sweet spot levels.
I also like the original idea. I'd rather lose the level advancement element of the game in order to keep the feel of the mid-levels.
What I'm trying to do, maybe unsuccessfully, is to somehow make those two elements, the ones I bolded in your post, be possible to co-exist, through the entire campaign.
Of course you could say that feat gainning at every 5000 xp somehow replaces the fun element of level advancement. That would be a valid point. But a subjective one. I personally don't think it does.

 

[Kunimatyu]

I hope you understand that your bolded statements are opposite to each other. You can't have them both. Or you have advancement, or you have the game frozen at the sweet spot.
The original idea kills, as you said, one of the main driving factors of D&D. In exchange it adds the possibility to keep the game running at the sweet spot levels.
I also like the original idea. I'd rather lose the level advancement element of the game in order to keep the feel of the mid-levels.
What I'm trying to do, maybe unsuccessfully, is to somehow make those two elements, the ones I bolded in your post, be possible to co-exist, through the entire campaign.
Of course you could say that feat gainning at every 5000 xp somehow replaces the fun element of level advancement. That would be a valid point. But a subjective one. I personally don't think it does.

Ainatan - define "level advancement" and definite "character advancement". It'll help me get an idea of where you're coming from.

 

[HeinorNY]

Ainatan - define "level advancement" and definite "character advancement". It'll help me get an idea of where you're coming from.

Since I'm mainly a D&D and D20 system player, to me both are the same. To advance your character you need to gain levels, or find magic items

 

[Kunimatyu]

Since I'm mainly a D&D and D20 system player, to me both are the same. To advance your character you need to gain levels, or find magic items

What's important about gaining levels?

 

[HeinorNY]

What's important about gaining levels?

In D&D it's one of the major fun elements of the game. Much of the game is focused on developing your character, making him stronger and powerful. Gaining levels is what is it all about.

 

[Kunimatyu]

In D&D it's one of the major fun elements of the game. Much of the game is focused on developing your character, making him stronger and powerful. Gaining levels is what is it all about.

What, precisely, about gaining a level is important to you as a player of D&D/d20?

 

[HeinorNY]

What, precisely, about gaining a level is important to you as a player of D&D/d20?

Is this an interview??? Are going to make up a personalized RPG system just for me?

 

[TwoSix]

Is this an interview??? Are going to make up a personalized RPG system just for me?

I think what Kunimatyu's getting at is that you're employing some circular logic. In d20, you advance by getting levels. It's fun to advance, therefore I need to level to have fun.

But if you can advance by gaining feats, isn't that the same fun?

If it isn't fun to gain feats, why not? What makes gaining a feat somehow different than gaining a level, fun-wise?