E6: The Game Inside D&D (with PDFs!)

[White Whale]

The main reason single-classing in regular D&D isn't optimal is because of prestige classes, most of which are more powerful than base classess. This is especilly true for casters. If my PC can get the full-spellcasting ability of a wizard or cleric (or maybe lose just one level) plus a bunch of prestige class goodies, it's a no-brainer to take that class. There are also classes like the frenzied berserker which will own any other melee class. You also have some feats in complete adventurer and complete scoundrel that allow you to multiclass and progress some of the more potent abilities of both classes. E6 eliminates a lot of prestige classes and the more potent abilities of the ones it does allow.

I agree with all of the above, but I don't see how it adresses the introduction of "capstone" feats.

This is what rycanada stated was the reason for "capstone" feats:

but a Class 4/ Otherclass 2 is better than Class6

Why is this bad? Do single class characters have to be better than multiclass characters?

I guess it's a matter of personal preference.

 

[Ry]

I guess it's a matter of personal preference.

I agree that it is 100% a matter of personal preference. Capstone feats exist because that preference has been frequently expressed by those interested in E6 - but E6 runs just fine without them (I have done this).

 

[Ry]

Would you please elaborate on how a monk/rogue can get it. If you're thinking it is worded like uncanny dodge, it isn't, 2 evasions do not become improved evasion. So what am I missing?

I think Ryan is getting things confused. Ryan is tired. Ryan has been working long hours. Ryan may leave an improved evasion feat out of E6.

 

[Quartz]

Why is this bad? Do single class characters have to be better than multiclass characters?

In D20, classes get cool powers early on. They're front-loaded. IPOF almost all the SRD classes are defined by L4 (Druid's wildshape at 5th being the exception). This is one reason I prefer the breakpoint to be at 8th or even 10th level - you can take two non-spellcasting classes to L4. E.g. Ftr 4 / Kt 4 or Kt 4 / Pal 4 or Rog 4 / Ftr 4. But that's the nice thing about E6 - you can change it if you don't like it. It still works as E8 or E10 (if you limit spells to 4th level).

 

[Shazman]

Single-classed characters don't have to be better than multi-classed characters, but they should be a viable option. It shouldn't be a no-brainer to multi-class for a quick power boost. With core only books, pretty much all of the multi-classed combos are equal to single -classed characters (except pure casters, but that's a different story). When you throw 2 dozen splatbooks into the mix, single class characters become extremely rare.

 

[joela]

E6 setting

FYI:

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=349227

 

[White Whale]

Single-classed characters don't have to be better than multi-classed characters, but they should be a viable option. It shouldn't be a no-brainer to multi-class for a quick power boost. With core only books, pretty much all of the multi-classed combos are equal to single -classed characters (except pure casters, but that's a different story). When you throw 2 dozen splatbooks into the mix, single class characters become extremely rare.

The only complaint related to this (that I could find) is that "the Ftr4/Brb2 is better at fighting than a Ftr6". The argument goes that the extra feat the Ftr6 gets is worth "nothing" in the E6 system, since feats are so abundant. While true in the long run (far into epic E6), clearly the feat has some value at level 6 and a few levels afterwards (so a Ftr6 isn't strictly inferior to a Ftr4/Brb2).

 

[Kunimatyu]

The only complaint related to this (that I could find) is that "the Ftr4/Brb2 is better at fighting than a Ftr6". The argument goes that the extra feat the Ftr6 gets is worth "nothing" in the E6 system, since feats are so abundant. While true in the long run (far into epic E6), clearly the feat has some value at level 6 and a few levels afterwards (so a Ftr6 isn't strictly inferior to a Ftr4/Brb2).

Reluctant as I am to discuss the poor Fighter again, I will point out that you're setting up a strawman. The extra feat isn't worth "nothing", just very little in comparison to rage, fast movement, uncanny dodge, and 4 skill points, ergo, Ftr6 is inferior to Ftr4/Brb2.

 

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

ergo, Ftr6 is inferior to Ftr4/Brb2.

Though I agree that Fighter4/Barbarian2 is more powerful on paper than Fighter6, I don't think I'll likely ever see it as a PC in my group. Here's why... It doesn't fit the concepts that I've seen my players use, so far for their characters. The one fighter that we currently have in our group, right now, is an Elven Noble. She is unlikely to multiclass, at all (as we don't use prestige classes unless special access is gained via roleplaying). Furthermore, she's a very lawful character. The barbarian (berzerker) archetype doesn't fit with her character concept. And, that's why I don't believe there will be an over-abundance of ftr4/bbn6's compared to ftr6's in E6. Character concept. Not everyone will want to play a raging chaotic warrior.

Now, as NPC's? Yes. I'll be using them. they make for beautiful orc seargents (or an orc war-chief in E6).

My question, though, is this: Is Barbarian6 more powerful than Fighter4/Barbarian2? My gut reaciton is yes, but I've not seen the two in play side-by-side. Though, I do see the ftr6/bbn2 as being more versitile than bbn6.

 

[slingbld]

What do you guys think of these....

Expanded Metamagic Knowledge
Prerequisite: Ability to cast 3rd level spells; Caster Stat 17
Benefit: You gain 4th level spell slot. This can used for a spell modified by a metamagic feat. It does not actually allow the ability to cast a 4th level spell. This feat can be taken up to 3 times. Each selection granting an additional 4th level slot.

Expanded Metamagic Mastery
Prerequisite: Expanded Metamagic Knowledge (selected 3 times); Caster Stat 19
Benefit: You gain a 5th level spell slot. This can used for a spell modified by a metamagic feat. It does not actually allow the ability to cast a 5th level spell.
This can only be selected once.

This is my 1st attempt at creating new feats. I felt this would allow the use of many of the metamagic feats that characters of level 6 can get. This would basically allow a 1st level feat to use a metamagic feat that is a +4 adjustment without actually granting access to the higher level spells....

So, what's wrong with 'em (I know I'm, gonna get ripped apart, I'm ready for it!!!)

Slingbld~
aka Patrick