E6: The Game Inside D&D (with PDFs!)

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

So, what's wrong with 'em (I know I'm, gonna get ripped apart, I'm ready for it!!!)

I don't intend to rip it apart... Just make a suggestion or two.

Perhaps the pre-requisites could be fine-tuned? Say Knowledge (Arcana) 9 ranks and Spellcraft 9 ranks for arcane casters or Knowledge (Religion) or something similar 9 ranks and Spellcraft 9 ranks for divine casters??? These would be in addition to your other requirements.

My take is that the ability to cast 3rd level spells isn't enough to qualify for these feats. Even with a superior casting stat, it's still not enough. Knowledge skill ranks and Spellcraft skill ranks indicate a study of the method and applications of spellcasting that might lead to a character developing the skills that are the benefits of these feats.

Any thoughts?

 

[Kunimatyu]

I don't intend to rip it apart... Just make a suggestion or two.

Perhaps the pre-requisites could be fine-tuned? Say Knowledge (Arcana) 9 ranks and Spellcraft 9 ranks for arcane casters or Knowledge (Religion) or something similar 9 ranks and Spellcraft 9 ranks for divine casters??? These would be in addition to your other requirements.

My take is that the ability to cast 3rd level spells isn't enough to qualify for these feats. Even with a superior casting stat, it's still not enough. Knowledge skill ranks and Spellcraft skill ranks indicate a study of the method and applications of spellcasting that might lead to a character developing the skills that are the benefits of these feats.

Any thoughts?

I'm not positive that E6 needs those two (though it clearly needs a way to use metamagic feats with 3rd level spells; we're on the same page here).

For spells with a 1-level increase, simply taking the PHB2 feat Arcane Thesis will allow you to apply a 1 level metamagic increase as if it did not increase the spell's level at all. This takes the place of the "bonus 4th level slot" without, say, players whining for actual 4th level spells in its place.

For a bigger metamagic boost once per day, take a look at my Swift Metamagic feat(already a part of E6), which allows you to apply a metamagic feat, usable as a swift action with no level increase, though the prereqs are steep if you want a high-level metamagic feat.

 

[pallen]

Why is this bad? Do single class characters have to be better than multiclass characters?

I gotta agree. I've never been a fan of new feats meant to "balance" single class characters. D&D characters are inherently unbalanced at different levels, and multiclassing only adds to the problem. Introducing an artificial level cap just highlights the balance issues at a certain point (level 6 in this case). All the extra feats in the world aren't going to balance all of the possible class choices.

For example, the "martial veteran" (or whatever it's called now) feat may help balance a Fighter 6 vs. a Barbarian 2/Fighter 4, but now they're both superior to the Barbarian 1/Fighter 5. What feat can we add to the 5th level fighter to fix this??

If I ever get the chance to run E6, I think I'll just stick with core+splat book feats. If everyone multiclasses, so be it.

 

[Kunimatyu]

If I ever get the chance to run E6, I think I'll just stick with core+splat book feats. If everyone multiclasses, so be it.

With the exception of the extra spell slot feat(which is a crucial component of spellcaster advancement), that's a completely viable approach, and why keeping the "capstones" as feats is so important -- if you like them use them, and if you don't, no big deal.

 

[Ry]

Even the caster feats you could get away without, but you'd need to find something else interesting for casters since metamagic is closed to them. That or tell Gandalf to pick up a sword. As if.

 

[Ry]

I am really excited by the 4E announcement, and I have a feeling that 4E will keep enough sacred cows that E6 will still be a good tweak (it's early yet, but I have a feeling the new game will have at least 20 levels, raise dead, gear that is powerful and important, and the wish spell will still exist). Depending on wording of the Gleemax terms of service, I may make an E6 gleemax site while keeping an OGL version once 4E comes out.

 

[Kunimatyu]

I am really excited by the 4E announcement, and I have a feeling that 4E will keep enough sacred cows that E6 will still be a good tweak (it's early yet, but I have a feeling the new game will have at least 20 levels, raise dead, gear that is powerful and important, and the wish spell will still exist). Depending on wording of the Gleemax terms of service, I may make an E6 gleemax site while keeping an OGL version once 4E comes out.

The big question is whether they seriously gut the higher-level spells. That is, in my eyes, the big determinant of the need for 4E6.

 

[Shazman]

I am really excited by the 4E announcement, and I have a feeling that 4E will keep enough sacred cows that E6 will still be a good tweak (it's early yet, but I have a feeling the new game will have at least 20 levels, raise dead, gear that is powerful and important, and the wish spell will still exist). Depending on wording of the Gleemax terms of service, I may make an E6 gleemax site while keeping an OGL version once 4E comes out.

I think in the press release blurb that's been floating around, there are actually 30 levels in core 4E. I don't know if the last 10 levels are the same as the first 20, but they obviously wanted epic levels to be a core part of the D&D experience. That's kind of the opposite of what E6 is about. It also said that they were using some elements of book of nine swords and star wars Saga. I believe that means more streamlining, and more per encounter vs. per day mechanics.

 

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

One of the pages that I read on 4E says that they're stretching out the "sweet spot." Perhaps, this means that someone at WOTC has been paying attention to why there are so many of us that like E6?

 

[Emryys]

One of the pages that I read on 4E says that they're stretching out the "sweet spot." Perhaps, this means that someone at WOTC has been paying attention to why there are so many of us that like E6?

Noticed this too...