E6: The Game Inside D&D
- Thread starter Ry
- Start date
Will
First Post
Open Minded gives you 5 skill points. It first appeared in Psionics Handbook (of all places), is open content viewable here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#openMinded
It was later reprinted in Complete Adventurer.
It was later reprinted in Complete Adventurer.
Werebat
Explorer
I've been excited about E6 since I first read about it, and am trying to convince my players to get behind me on switching my new Eberron game over to it (we've only played one session so far so it wouldn't require much retrofitting, and E6 fits the plotline a lot better than standard d20).
In the course of discussing things with them, I have added my own spin and houserules on E6 and wondered how people here might react to my proposals. Especially my idea of gestalting vs. taking a capstone class as well as the new capstone feats I have proposed.
Much of what I am cutting and pasting here is directly from this and other online sources. However, much of it is new. Again, I'm curious what you folks think of it (particularly the new stuff, like Master of Metamagic).
Here's the document I will be forwarding to my players shortly proposing the exact changes I would like to make to my game:
E6 General
• Characters progress in level as normal until reaching 6th level, at which point a bonus feat can be chosen for every 5000 experience points earned. The character must still be able to meet the requirements of these feats in order to take them.
• The following “Raising the Stakes” options from the E6 wiki will be used: Conviction (replaces Action Points), The Death Flag, and Raising the Stakes. I am open to using Players Roll All the Dice if the majority of people want to try it.
Going Gestalt and Capstone Classes
• Upon reaching 6th level, each character chooses to either “go gestalt” or selects a “capstone class” (which he must have taken at least one level in).
• If a character chooses to “go gestalt”, he can choose to spend feats to acquire class abilities held by any classes that he has at least one level in. These class abilities include actual class abilities as well as spellcaster levels, BAB, and saving throws (+1 advancement per feat spent). He may never purchase class abilities that could not be earned by a character with six levels in the class in question. Prestige class abilities can be earned this way so long as the level of the PrC required to achieve them could possibly have been reached by a 6th level character.
• If a character chooses to select a capstone class, he may never spend feats to acquire class abilities as described above (not even in his capstone class). However, he is eligible to purchase up to three “capstone feats” that are tied to his capstone class. These feats typically grant abilities not attainable until after the 6th level of the capstone class. If a character has less than 6 levels in his capstone class, some of the abilities gained from his capstone feats may need to be modified to account for this.
Magic Items
• Artificers cannot use their abilities to emulate spells of higher than 3rd level. As a result, no magic items requiring spells of higher than 3rd level are available for purchase in the markets of Sharn or any other area.
• The caster level for the creation of any item can be lowered to the minimum level required to cast the spells needed to create it. Thus, any item or item enhancement that requires no spell higher than 3rd level in its creation can be found in the markets of Sharn and elsewhere, so long as its other requirements could be met by a 6th level character. Thus, Boots of Speed could be found for purchase even though their required Caster Level is officially 10th.
• Players may request otherwise uncraftable items to be placed as treasure, and I will make an honest effort to do so at an appropriate time as long as the items do not seem disruptive to the game (especially if they are central to the character’s concept). These “artifacts” may have been crafted long ago by giants, dragons, or even deities.
New E6 Feats
Ability Advancement (General)
Your training pays off, and one of your Abilities increases.
Prerequisite: Ability Training in the same ability.
Benefit: Choose one Ability. You gain a permanent +2 bonus to that ability. This bonus does not stack with the benefit from Ability Training.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times, its effects do not stack. Each time you take this feat it applies to another ability.
Ability Boost (General)
Prerequisite: This feat can only be taken as a bonus feat after 6th level.
Benefit: Choose an ability. You gain a permanent +1 bonus to that ability.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take this feat it applies to another ability.
Ability Training (General)
You spend time honing one of your Abilities: Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma.
Prerequisite: This feat can only be taken as a bonus feat after 6th level.
Benefit: Choose one Ability; treat that Ability as having a +2 bonus to its score for the purposes of Ability Checks and Skill Checks. This bonus does not count for any other use of that ability.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times, its effects do not stack. Each time you take this feat it applies to another ability.
Expanded Caster Stamina (General)
Prerequisite: This feat can only be taken as a bonus feat after 6th level.
Benefit: You gain one or more new spell slots, with spell levels totaling to half your caster level (rounded down). Treat a 0th-level spell slot as one half a level. Thus, a sixth-level wizard could gain one 3rd level spell slot, or one 2nd level and one 1st level spell slots, or three new 1st level spell slots, etc. This feat cannot provide spell slots of a level higher than you can already cast.
Special: You can take this feat multiple times. Each time you take it you gain more spell slots. An artificer can take the feat to gain extra infusion slots instead of spell slots.
Expanded Spell Knowledge (General)
Prerequisite: This feat can only be taken as a bonus feat after 6th level.
Benefit: You learn one or more new spells known, with spell levels totaling to half your caster level (rounded down). Treat a new 0th-level spell as having one half a level. Thus, a sixth-level sorcerer could learn one new 3rd level spell, or one new 2nd level and one new 1st level spells, or three new 1st level spells, etc. This feat cannot provide spells known of a level higher than you can already cast.
Special: You can take this feat multiple times. Each time you take it you learn more new spells.
Heroic Fortitude (General)
Prerequisite: This feat can only be taken as a bonus feat after 6th level.
Benefit: For every feat you have gained after level 6 (including this one), you gain one extra hit point. Future feats will raise your hit point total by 1 hit point per feat.
Heroic Spirit (General)
Benefit: Your Conviction point pool per session is raised to 7. You still gain only 6 points of Conviction for raising your Death Flag.
(Note: This feat replaces the Heroic Spirit feat from the ECS)
Master of Metamagic (General)
Prerequisite: Ability to cast at least one 3rd level spell, at least one metamagic feat that could be applied to Master of Metamagic (see below). This feat can only be taken as a bonus feat after 6th level.
Benefit: You gain a 4th level spell slot that can only be filled with a metamagicked spell of 3rd level or below. You must have the appropriate metamagic feat or feats to affect the spell with (swift or sudden versions do not count).
Special: You may take this feat more than once, up to a total of six times. You must have at least one metamagic feat that could be applied to Master of Metamagic for each time you take Master of Metamagic. Each time you take Master of Metamagic, the level of the new spell slot you gain from it increases by one. For example, the second time you take it, you gain a 5th level spell slot that can only be filled with a metamagicked spell of 3rd level or below.
Swift Metamagic (Metamagic)
Benefit: When you take this feat, select a metamagic feat. As a swift action once per day, you may apply this metamagic feat to a spell you cast with no adjustment to the level of the spell cast.
Special: You must have a number of Swift metamagic feats equal to the level increase of your chosen metamagic, minus one, to take this feat. For example, Empower Spell, which boosts the level of a spell by 2, has a prerequisite of 1 Swift feat. Extend Spell, which has an increase of 1, would have no prerequisites. This feat may be taken multiple times.
Swift Strikes (General)
Prerequisite: BAB +3
Benefit: The cost for you to take an extra standard action is reduced to 1 Conviction point if you use that action solely to make an attack. This will not work in conjunction with any form of spellcasting, such as Melf’s Acid Arrow.
Wondrous Rings (Item Creation)
Prerequisite: Craft Wondrous Item. This feat can only be taken as a bonus feat after 6th level.
Benefit: You treat rings as wondrous items for the purpose of meeting item creation prerequisites. You must still meet any other requirements for any rings you create.
Capstone Feats:
These feats are available as post-6th level feats for characters that have chosen their relevant classes as capstone classes. The third feats in each set can only be taken after at least one of the first two. Unless otherwise noted, no capstone feat has any other prerequisites. Some capstone feats (such as those granting spells) may be adjusted by the DM in cases where a character has less than 6 levels in their capstone class.
Artificer:
* Accomplished Craftsman: Your Craft Reserve renews itself to 150 points. In the future, this will happen every time you gain another feat.
* Metamagic Spell Completion (as the Artificer ability)
* Skill Mastery (as the Artificer ability)
Barbarian:
* Barbaric Toughness: You gain Damage Resistance 1/-
* Imp. Barbaric Toughness: Your DR increases to 3/- (Requires Barbaric Toughness)
* Battle Fury: You gain Greater Rage and Tireless Rage (as the Barbarian abilities)
Bard:
* Bardic Inspiration (Inspire Courage at +2 instead of +1) (Requires 3 ranks in Perform)
* Choose 1 3rd level Bard spell from a list supplied by the DM. You may cast this spell once per day.
* Inspire Greatness (as the Bardic ability – requires 9 ranks in Perform)
Cleric:
* Extra Domain: Choose a Domain in the portfolio of your god that you do not already have access to. You have access to this Domain, including its granted power.
* Heroic Caster: Your Caster Level is raised by +1 (to 7th) for all purposes other than spells known and spells per day.
* Heroic Spell: Choose 1 4th level Cleric spell from a list supplied by the DM. You may cast this spell 1/day. You may use your Spontaneous Casting ability with this spell.
Druid:
* Ferocious Slayer: You may take the Ferocious Slayer form when Shapeshifting.
* Heroic Caster: Your Caster Level is raised by +1 (to 7th) for all purposes other than spells known and spells per day.
* Heroic Spell: Choose 1 4th level Druid spell from a list supplied by the DM. You may cast this spell 1/day. You may use your Spontaneous Casting ability with this spell.
Fighter:
* Martial Veteran: You gain any feat requiring a +8 BAB and/or 8 levels of Fighter whose prerequisites you otherwise meet. You can take Martial Veteran multiple times.
* Greater Weapon Specialization in any one weapon
* Martial Prowess: When you make a full attack, you get a bonus iterative attack, which has a BAB of 5 less than the lowest BAB iterative attack you would normally have.
Monk:
* Precise Flurry: You take no penalty to hit when flurrying
* Improved Evasion (as the Monk ability)
* Unarmed Prowess: You gain Greater Flurry (as the Monk ability) and your Unarmed damage goes up by one step.
Paladin:
* Holy Strikes: Your weapon attacks count as Good aligned for the purpose of overcoming DR.
* Exalted Might: Your Paladin level is treated as 8th for the purposes of the Smite Evil, Lay on Hands, and Turn Undead abilities.
* Righteous Knight: Choose one 2nd level Paladin spell from a list supplied by the DM. You can cast this spell once per day. In addition, your Paladin level is treated as 8th for the purpose of the Special Mount ability.
Ranger:
* Mystic Woodsman: Choose one 2nd level Ranger spell from a list supplied by the DM. You can cast this spell once per day. In addition, you gain the Woodland Stride and Swift Tracker Ranger abilities.
* Evasion (as the Ranger ability)
* 3rd Favored Enemy (as the Ranger ability)
Rogue:
* +1d6 Sneak Attack damage
* Improved Uncanny Dodge (as the Rogue ability)
* Roguish Ability: You gain any one of the 10th level Rogue special abilities. You can take Roguish Ability multiple times; each time you take it, you gain a new special ability.
Sorcerer:
* Heroic Caster: Your Caster Level is raised by +1 (to 7th) for all purposes other than spells known and spells per day.
* Arcane Master: You gain two feats from the Wizard Bonus Feat list.
* Heroic Spell: Choose 1 4th level Sorcerer spell from a list supplied by the DM. You may cast this spell 3/day.
Wizard:
* Heroic Caster: Your Caster Level is raised by +1 (to 7th) for all purposes other than spells known and spells per day.
* Arcane Master: You gain two feats from the Wizard Bonus Feat list.
* Heroic Spell: Choose 2 4th level Wizard spells from a list supplied by the DM. Each day, you may choose one of these spells to prepare and cast. If you are a specialist wizard and one of your chosen spells is from your specialized school, you can prepare it an additional time per day.
In the course of discussing things with them, I have added my own spin and houserules on E6 and wondered how people here might react to my proposals. Especially my idea of gestalting vs. taking a capstone class as well as the new capstone feats I have proposed.
Much of what I am cutting and pasting here is directly from this and other online sources. However, much of it is new. Again, I'm curious what you folks think of it (particularly the new stuff, like Master of Metamagic).
Here's the document I will be forwarding to my players shortly proposing the exact changes I would like to make to my game:
E6 General
• Characters progress in level as normal until reaching 6th level, at which point a bonus feat can be chosen for every 5000 experience points earned. The character must still be able to meet the requirements of these feats in order to take them.
• The following “Raising the Stakes” options from the E6 wiki will be used: Conviction (replaces Action Points), The Death Flag, and Raising the Stakes. I am open to using Players Roll All the Dice if the majority of people want to try it.
Going Gestalt and Capstone Classes
• Upon reaching 6th level, each character chooses to either “go gestalt” or selects a “capstone class” (which he must have taken at least one level in).
• If a character chooses to “go gestalt”, he can choose to spend feats to acquire class abilities held by any classes that he has at least one level in. These class abilities include actual class abilities as well as spellcaster levels, BAB, and saving throws (+1 advancement per feat spent). He may never purchase class abilities that could not be earned by a character with six levels in the class in question. Prestige class abilities can be earned this way so long as the level of the PrC required to achieve them could possibly have been reached by a 6th level character.
• If a character chooses to select a capstone class, he may never spend feats to acquire class abilities as described above (not even in his capstone class). However, he is eligible to purchase up to three “capstone feats” that are tied to his capstone class. These feats typically grant abilities not attainable until after the 6th level of the capstone class. If a character has less than 6 levels in his capstone class, some of the abilities gained from his capstone feats may need to be modified to account for this.
Magic Items
• Artificers cannot use their abilities to emulate spells of higher than 3rd level. As a result, no magic items requiring spells of higher than 3rd level are available for purchase in the markets of Sharn or any other area.
• The caster level for the creation of any item can be lowered to the minimum level required to cast the spells needed to create it. Thus, any item or item enhancement that requires no spell higher than 3rd level in its creation can be found in the markets of Sharn and elsewhere, so long as its other requirements could be met by a 6th level character. Thus, Boots of Speed could be found for purchase even though their required Caster Level is officially 10th.
• Players may request otherwise uncraftable items to be placed as treasure, and I will make an honest effort to do so at an appropriate time as long as the items do not seem disruptive to the game (especially if they are central to the character’s concept). These “artifacts” may have been crafted long ago by giants, dragons, or even deities.
New E6 Feats
Ability Advancement (General)
Your training pays off, and one of your Abilities increases.
Prerequisite: Ability Training in the same ability.
Benefit: Choose one Ability. You gain a permanent +2 bonus to that ability. This bonus does not stack with the benefit from Ability Training.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times, its effects do not stack. Each time you take this feat it applies to another ability.
Ability Boost (General)
Prerequisite: This feat can only be taken as a bonus feat after 6th level.
Benefit: Choose an ability. You gain a permanent +1 bonus to that ability.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take this feat it applies to another ability.
Ability Training (General)
You spend time honing one of your Abilities: Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma.
Prerequisite: This feat can only be taken as a bonus feat after 6th level.
Benefit: Choose one Ability; treat that Ability as having a +2 bonus to its score for the purposes of Ability Checks and Skill Checks. This bonus does not count for any other use of that ability.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times, its effects do not stack. Each time you take this feat it applies to another ability.
Expanded Caster Stamina (General)
Prerequisite: This feat can only be taken as a bonus feat after 6th level.
Benefit: You gain one or more new spell slots, with spell levels totaling to half your caster level (rounded down). Treat a 0th-level spell slot as one half a level. Thus, a sixth-level wizard could gain one 3rd level spell slot, or one 2nd level and one 1st level spell slots, or three new 1st level spell slots, etc. This feat cannot provide spell slots of a level higher than you can already cast.
Special: You can take this feat multiple times. Each time you take it you gain more spell slots. An artificer can take the feat to gain extra infusion slots instead of spell slots.
Expanded Spell Knowledge (General)
Prerequisite: This feat can only be taken as a bonus feat after 6th level.
Benefit: You learn one or more new spells known, with spell levels totaling to half your caster level (rounded down). Treat a new 0th-level spell as having one half a level. Thus, a sixth-level sorcerer could learn one new 3rd level spell, or one new 2nd level and one new 1st level spells, or three new 1st level spells, etc. This feat cannot provide spells known of a level higher than you can already cast.
Special: You can take this feat multiple times. Each time you take it you learn more new spells.
Heroic Fortitude (General)
Prerequisite: This feat can only be taken as a bonus feat after 6th level.
Benefit: For every feat you have gained after level 6 (including this one), you gain one extra hit point. Future feats will raise your hit point total by 1 hit point per feat.
Heroic Spirit (General)
Benefit: Your Conviction point pool per session is raised to 7. You still gain only 6 points of Conviction for raising your Death Flag.
(Note: This feat replaces the Heroic Spirit feat from the ECS)
Master of Metamagic (General)
Prerequisite: Ability to cast at least one 3rd level spell, at least one metamagic feat that could be applied to Master of Metamagic (see below). This feat can only be taken as a bonus feat after 6th level.
Benefit: You gain a 4th level spell slot that can only be filled with a metamagicked spell of 3rd level or below. You must have the appropriate metamagic feat or feats to affect the spell with (swift or sudden versions do not count).
Special: You may take this feat more than once, up to a total of six times. You must have at least one metamagic feat that could be applied to Master of Metamagic for each time you take Master of Metamagic. Each time you take Master of Metamagic, the level of the new spell slot you gain from it increases by one. For example, the second time you take it, you gain a 5th level spell slot that can only be filled with a metamagicked spell of 3rd level or below.
Swift Metamagic (Metamagic)
Benefit: When you take this feat, select a metamagic feat. As a swift action once per day, you may apply this metamagic feat to a spell you cast with no adjustment to the level of the spell cast.
Special: You must have a number of Swift metamagic feats equal to the level increase of your chosen metamagic, minus one, to take this feat. For example, Empower Spell, which boosts the level of a spell by 2, has a prerequisite of 1 Swift feat. Extend Spell, which has an increase of 1, would have no prerequisites. This feat may be taken multiple times.
Swift Strikes (General)
Prerequisite: BAB +3
Benefit: The cost for you to take an extra standard action is reduced to 1 Conviction point if you use that action solely to make an attack. This will not work in conjunction with any form of spellcasting, such as Melf’s Acid Arrow.
Wondrous Rings (Item Creation)
Prerequisite: Craft Wondrous Item. This feat can only be taken as a bonus feat after 6th level.
Benefit: You treat rings as wondrous items for the purpose of meeting item creation prerequisites. You must still meet any other requirements for any rings you create.
Capstone Feats:
These feats are available as post-6th level feats for characters that have chosen their relevant classes as capstone classes. The third feats in each set can only be taken after at least one of the first two. Unless otherwise noted, no capstone feat has any other prerequisites. Some capstone feats (such as those granting spells) may be adjusted by the DM in cases where a character has less than 6 levels in their capstone class.
Artificer:
* Accomplished Craftsman: Your Craft Reserve renews itself to 150 points. In the future, this will happen every time you gain another feat.
* Metamagic Spell Completion (as the Artificer ability)
* Skill Mastery (as the Artificer ability)
Barbarian:
* Barbaric Toughness: You gain Damage Resistance 1/-
* Imp. Barbaric Toughness: Your DR increases to 3/- (Requires Barbaric Toughness)
* Battle Fury: You gain Greater Rage and Tireless Rage (as the Barbarian abilities)
Bard:
* Bardic Inspiration (Inspire Courage at +2 instead of +1) (Requires 3 ranks in Perform)
* Choose 1 3rd level Bard spell from a list supplied by the DM. You may cast this spell once per day.
* Inspire Greatness (as the Bardic ability – requires 9 ranks in Perform)
Cleric:
* Extra Domain: Choose a Domain in the portfolio of your god that you do not already have access to. You have access to this Domain, including its granted power.
* Heroic Caster: Your Caster Level is raised by +1 (to 7th) for all purposes other than spells known and spells per day.
* Heroic Spell: Choose 1 4th level Cleric spell from a list supplied by the DM. You may cast this spell 1/day. You may use your Spontaneous Casting ability with this spell.
Druid:
* Ferocious Slayer: You may take the Ferocious Slayer form when Shapeshifting.
* Heroic Caster: Your Caster Level is raised by +1 (to 7th) for all purposes other than spells known and spells per day.
* Heroic Spell: Choose 1 4th level Druid spell from a list supplied by the DM. You may cast this spell 1/day. You may use your Spontaneous Casting ability with this spell.
Fighter:
* Martial Veteran: You gain any feat requiring a +8 BAB and/or 8 levels of Fighter whose prerequisites you otherwise meet. You can take Martial Veteran multiple times.
* Greater Weapon Specialization in any one weapon
* Martial Prowess: When you make a full attack, you get a bonus iterative attack, which has a BAB of 5 less than the lowest BAB iterative attack you would normally have.
Monk:
* Precise Flurry: You take no penalty to hit when flurrying
* Improved Evasion (as the Monk ability)
* Unarmed Prowess: You gain Greater Flurry (as the Monk ability) and your Unarmed damage goes up by one step.
Paladin:
* Holy Strikes: Your weapon attacks count as Good aligned for the purpose of overcoming DR.
* Exalted Might: Your Paladin level is treated as 8th for the purposes of the Smite Evil, Lay on Hands, and Turn Undead abilities.
* Righteous Knight: Choose one 2nd level Paladin spell from a list supplied by the DM. You can cast this spell once per day. In addition, your Paladin level is treated as 8th for the purpose of the Special Mount ability.
Ranger:
* Mystic Woodsman: Choose one 2nd level Ranger spell from a list supplied by the DM. You can cast this spell once per day. In addition, you gain the Woodland Stride and Swift Tracker Ranger abilities.
* Evasion (as the Ranger ability)
* 3rd Favored Enemy (as the Ranger ability)
Rogue:
* +1d6 Sneak Attack damage
* Improved Uncanny Dodge (as the Rogue ability)
* Roguish Ability: You gain any one of the 10th level Rogue special abilities. You can take Roguish Ability multiple times; each time you take it, you gain a new special ability.
Sorcerer:
* Heroic Caster: Your Caster Level is raised by +1 (to 7th) for all purposes other than spells known and spells per day.
* Arcane Master: You gain two feats from the Wizard Bonus Feat list.
* Heroic Spell: Choose 1 4th level Sorcerer spell from a list supplied by the DM. You may cast this spell 3/day.
Wizard:
* Heroic Caster: Your Caster Level is raised by +1 (to 7th) for all purposes other than spells known and spells per day.
* Arcane Master: You gain two feats from the Wizard Bonus Feat list.
* Heroic Spell: Choose 2 4th level Wizard spells from a list supplied by the DM. Each day, you may choose one of these spells to prepare and cast. If you are a specialist wizard and one of your chosen spells is from your specialized school, you can prepare it an additional time per day.
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I had a very similar idea to your capstone feats werebat.
I have them on another computer, though.
Regarding E6 in general. I first thought about making gestalt characters for it, but some of the combinations are more powerful than others, so I decided to go with Generic Classes from Unearthed Arcana. Becouse the Generic spellcasters don't get 4th level spells until level 8, I decided to raise the levelcap to 7. That way those players who want two normal attacks or have 3rd level spells can take one other class beside their main one as well.
I also went through the Magic Item Compendium to see what items are available from there. I made a list of them, and I'll post it here later. I'll possibly post those "capstone" feats too. Some of them are borrowed and modified from those found earlier on this thread, but a few are of my own devising.
I have them on another computer, though.
Regarding E6 in general. I first thought about making gestalt characters for it, but some of the combinations are more powerful than others, so I decided to go with Generic Classes from Unearthed Arcana. Becouse the Generic spellcasters don't get 4th level spells until level 8, I decided to raise the levelcap to 7. That way those players who want two normal attacks or have 3rd level spells can take one other class beside their main one as well.
I also went through the Magic Item Compendium to see what items are available from there. I made a list of them, and I'll post it here later. I'll possibly post those "capstone" feats too. Some of them are borrowed and modified from those found earlier on this thread, but a few are of my own devising.
Thanks for the inspiration. I love Epic Six but one of the things I miss is prestige classes. The thing I love about E6 is staying with low level spells, lower hit dice, and lower AC/BAB with less magic trinkets.Moracai said:
So I'm working on a new variant E6*. One where characters level as normal up to 6th level. Then characters can choose to level again "gestalt" style up to level six. The second set of levels are combined with the first just like gestalt so in the case of overlapping abilities you just take the best.
Are there any potential pitfalls to this system that I'm overlooking? I think I'd like this better than the various E7, E8, etc variants I've seen out there.
Rogue 6/Assassin 6
+4 BAB, +2/+5/+2 saves, +3d6 sneak attack, improved uncanny dodge, 3/3/1 assassin spells per day
Wizard 6/Cleric 6
Basically a mystic theurge without some of the drawbacks. I'm using the gestalt rule that "mystic theurge" type dual-class prestige classes aren't allowed in gestalt games.
One potential pitfall (in fact the reason I decided to abandon the gestalt idea and go with the generic classes) is that the different combinations are not very balanced. A 6/6 Paladin-Sorcerer has more to gain from going gestalt than a 6/6 Barbarian-Fighter, for example.Mokona said:
Another potential pitfall in your example might be that the player could feel that he doesn't "gain" enough from getting those secondary levels. I think that making those Assassin class features as feats to be gained, might have the same effect to the game that you are after.
6/6 Paladin-Sorcerer
+6/+1 BAB, +5/+2/+5 saves, 6d10 HD, 18 skill points, aura of good, detect evil, smite 2/day, divine grace, lay on hands, aura of courage, divine health, turn undead, special mount, remove disease 1/week, 1 1st level paladin spell per day, summon familiar, 6/6/5/3 sorcerer spells per day (but these are all affected by spell failure rules if wearing armor)
6/6 Fighter-Barbarian
+6/+1 BAB, +5/+2/+2 saves, 6d12 HD, 36 skill points, 4 bonus feats, fast movement, rage 2/day, improved uncanny dodge, trap sense +2
I'm not sure that the mixed fighter-wizard is 100% better than the dedicated fighter. But the point of my option was using prestige classes. I'd much rather be a:
6/6 Druid-Shifter
+4 BAB, +5/+5/+5 saves, 6d8 HD, 36 skill points, 5/3/3/2 druid spells per day, animal companion, nature sense, wild empathy, woodland stride, trackless step, resist nature's lure, wild shape 1/day, greater wild shape 5/day (small, medium, humanoid, animal, monstrous humanoid, large, tiny, beast, plant, giant, vermin, diminutive, magical beast, aberration, ooze), supernatural ease
6/6 Monk-Assassin
Even better than the Rogue-Assassin in almost every way
If you don't like the gestalt rules that is a separate issue. I've used gestalt rules before and no one cried about the suboptimal choices of playing redundant classes instead of complimentary ones.
+6/+1 BAB, +5/+2/+5 saves, 6d10 HD, 18 skill points, aura of good, detect evil, smite 2/day, divine grace, lay on hands, aura of courage, divine health, turn undead, special mount, remove disease 1/week, 1 1st level paladin spell per day, summon familiar, 6/6/5/3 sorcerer spells per day (but these are all affected by spell failure rules if wearing armor)
6/6 Fighter-Barbarian
+6/+1 BAB, +5/+2/+2 saves, 6d12 HD, 36 skill points, 4 bonus feats, fast movement, rage 2/day, improved uncanny dodge, trap sense +2
I'm not sure that the mixed fighter-wizard is 100% better than the dedicated fighter. But the point of my option was using prestige classes. I'd much rather be a:
6/6 Druid-Shifter
+4 BAB, +5/+5/+5 saves, 6d8 HD, 36 skill points, 5/3/3/2 druid spells per day, animal companion, nature sense, wild empathy, woodland stride, trackless step, resist nature's lure, wild shape 1/day, greater wild shape 5/day (small, medium, humanoid, animal, monstrous humanoid, large, tiny, beast, plant, giant, vermin, diminutive, magical beast, aberration, ooze), supernatural ease
6/6 Monk-Assassin
Even better than the Rogue-Assassin in almost every way
If you don't like the gestalt rules that is a separate issue. I've used gestalt rules before and no one cried about the suboptimal choices of playing redundant classes instead of complimentary ones.
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