Early Ultimate Magus, Yes?

[interwyrm]

1Wiz/1Sor/XUltimate Magus
Feat at 1st level, precocious apprentice (wizard).

Yes?

 

[rgard]

1Wiz/1Sor/XUltimate Magus
Feat at 1st level, precocious apprentice (wizard).

Yes?

I don't think so. When we were discussing the Complete Mage here, iirc the guy who wrote the precocious apprentice feat said it can't be used to qualify for prcs that require the ability to cast 2nd level arcane spells.

Edit: I may have this confused with being about how to qualify for reserve feats, or it applies in both cases.

 

[lukelightning]

Ah, precocious apprentice. A little optional feat in an optional book (not even listed with the other feats!) and everyone thinks they can take it.

 

[Thanee]

No, Precocious Apprentice does not give you the ability to (reliably) cast 2nd-level spells, which was the explanation from WotC why it cannot be used to fulfill prerequisites.

A more simple approach would be... no!

Bye
Thanee

 

[Felix]

A more simple approach would be... no!

Alternatively:

Ultimate Magus

Entry Requirements:
Skills: Spellcraft 8 ranks

Not until 6th level. Ever.

 

[interwyrm]

Alternatively:

Ultimate Magus

Entry Requirements:
Skills: Spellcraft 8 ranks

Not until 6th level. Ever.

Thought about that a while ago. Doh!

 

[RigaMortus2]

Ah, precocious apprentice. A little optional feat in an optional book (not even listed with the other feats!) and everyone thinks they can take it.

Isn't that true with every feat though? Even Core feats the DM is allowed to limit access. All feats (and splat books) are optional and up to the DM to use.

 

[pawsplay]

The simple fact is that the ability to prepare a single 2nd level spell under certain circumstances does not constitute "the ability to cast 2nd level spells." You can argue that it's very similar to the case of a 3rd level wizard who can only cast one spell and insists on wearing leather armor, but it's still just not quite the same.

Also, if it did constitute the ability to cast 2nd level spells, as soon as you took the feat, you would lose it and gain a 2nd level spell slot. Then, you would have a 2nd level spell slot and no ability to cast 2nd level spells.

 

[Psion]

Isn't that true with every feat though? Even Core feats the DM is allowed to limit access. All feats (and splat books) are optional and up to the DM to use.

True.

But basically, once it appears in an official book, people start making builds around it.

And then, they take it to the DM, either:
1) The DM doesn't realize the exploit, and unkowingly lets cheese in the game. Or:
2) The DM says no, the player laments how this torpedoes his idea, and the DM either relents or feels like a heel.

Not sayin' I have a good solution to this, just sayin'...

 

[Jack Simth]

There is a reasonable solution.

List of permitted sources, with caveats, before the game ever starts.

"I'm sorry, I checked that feat a while back, it's on the list I handed out early as being a little too liable to be game-breaking; most the rest of the book is fine, though"

or

"I'm sorry, that book had a bit too much cheese potential for my liking; it's not on the approved book list that I already handed out."

or

"I'm sorry, I don't have that book, and haven't had time to properly check that book for balance, nor can I properly adjucate it without being very familiar with it, so it's not on the approved list that I handed out; leave it here for a week, I'll research it, and get back to you on whether or not I'll permit it, all right?"

The big thing is having the safe list (books) and the exceptions list (individual feats, spells, chapters, PrC's, base classes, combos, et cetera that lead to broken things in the otherwise safe books) distributed in advance. Then, it isn't the DM being arbitrary; the player was warned in advance.