D&D 5E Earning Levels In Game? (+)

[Ath'kethin]

Yeah this issue actually makes me wonder if it ought to be done flashback style, where you figure out, taking turns, where you got your new toys. Definitely soemthing to consider.

What you're describing is pretty much what I landed on. IME it's easier/better to assume characters have been practicing, studying, or researching stuff in their downtime, and gaining a level more or less just marks the point where they can do [skill X] consistently enough for it to be reliable.

Now, that only applies to class abilities, feats, and stuff like that I'm all for setting up a quest if a player wants a specific magic item, or incorporating that quest into another ongoing adventure, or what have you.

I pretty much just decided not to worry about it.

 

[BookTenTiger]

I think this is a really interesting idea!

As you said, this would be a great player-facing tool. As they create their characters in Session 0, together you can put some locations on the map where they will find experts, sources of magic, or school where they could train. Maybe it would make sense to only put 1st - 3rd abilities on there. Then, as they adventure, they learn where they can access even more of their abilities.

In Zelda, the reason Link is gaining more ability is often in order to defeat Ganon. I could see this kind of game needing its story to be based on gaining abilities, perhaps to defeat an evil presence, or to compete with other adventurers.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I think item based progression can be a huge part of D&D. It kinda was with the old-school fighters and the wizard needing to find scrolls or thieves with a bunch of misc items adding to their ability rolls.

Based on 5e there's the Index Card RPG that does something similar. And there's the like of Knave and Into the Odd that are kinda similar, IIRC.

I think you could try to have every character gain the equivalent of their base class features from lvl 1-3 at 1st level, then convert the rest of the features as item features instead (with the prerequisite of being attuned by a member of that class).

HD could require to find magical concoctions or heart containers to add an extra HD and HD worth of HP.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

There are some NuSR games that facilitate diegetic character growth; Into the Odd and Electric Bastionland, for example.

It's something I've been working on in my own games off and on for the past several years, I think it's definitely an area that hasn't been explored enough in the TTRPG space. And yea, the new Zeldas and Elden Ring are excellent examples of diegetic growth.

For 5e, I've been experimenting with a classless game focused on in-character growth. Every level, each PC gets a "feat"; they can pick from a menu, or the player and I negotiate for a new ability that fits their character arc, usually focused on an ability or item they've acquired in play.

Yeah I think repackaging most of the game into feats and a set of “starting package” takes on classes something like Star Wars Saga Edition, would probably make it work pretty well.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

What you're describing is pretty much what I landed on. IME it's easier/better to assume characters have been practicing, studying, or researching stuff in their downtime, and gaining a level more or less just marks the point where they can do [skill X] consistently enough for it to be reliable.

Now, that only applies to class abilities, feats, and stuff like that I'm all for setting up a quest if a player wants a specific magic item, or incorporating that quest into another ongoing adventure, or what have you.

I pretty much just decided not to worry about it.

Yeah it’s basically a handwaive, maybe combined with a classless system. Idk.
If I can’t make this come together I may compromise and have each class have some features that can be gained as adventuring rewards, just like wizards learning new spells, but most of your stuff follows a class table. We’ll see.

I think this is a really interesting idea!

As you said, this would be a great player-facing tool. As they create their characters in Session 0, together you can put some locations on the map where they will find experts, sources of magic, or school where they could train. Maybe it would make sense to only put 1st - 3rd abilities on there. Then, as they adventure, they learn where they can access even more of their abilities.

I love this.

In Zelda, the reason Link is gaining more ability is often in order to defeat Ganon. I could see this kind of game needing its story to be based on gaining abilities, perhaps to defeat an evil presence, or to compete with other adventurers.

Yeah I think you’d want a set of classes that have fiction that lends to needing to find power, and a setting and concludes that speak to the individual person and thier skill not being enough by itself, so you have to go out and find power in order to beat the BBEG.

I think item based progression can be a huge part of D&D. It kinda was with the old-school fighters and the wizard needing to find scrolls or thieves with a bunch of misc items adding to their ability rolls.

Based on 5e there's the Index Card RPG that does something similar. And there's the like of Knave and Into the Odd that are kinda similar, IIRC.

I think you could try to have every character gain the equivalent of their base class features from lvl 1-3 at 1st level, then convert the rest of the features as item features instead (with the prerequisite of being attuned by a member of that class).

Hell yeah. Items, feats, very similar concepts.

HD could require to find magical concoctions or heart containers to add an extra HD and HD worth of HP.

dude…

I love that.

 

[Digdude]

I let my pcs train themselves except for levels 5 10 15 and 20. They know up front they will need to seek out someone to show them the ropes. Plus it gives me a chance to intoduce allies or npcs that might be needed down the road.

 

[Umbran]

Idk what do y’all think?

While this sounds like it can have a certain verisimilitude and theme - that power doesn't come free - once you do it for an entire party of players, each of them ends up on a separate, unrelated, personal quest. That's a lot to manage, in terms of flow and spotlight, and will tend to stall out anything else the party had going on.

Edit to add: well, the constructive part of my post apparently got dropped. Let me try again...

So, what do you do with that?

The prior D&D rules for training managed it by glossing over it as a "downtime" activity. Have a short discussion in which the PC can find a tutor, pay some GP, and fast forward over some game-time and poof! they come pout with a new ability. There's noting wrong with this, but for many it winds up being busywork, which leads to them just not bothering and have abilities just manifest without explicit explanation.

Another path is to just make the game about those quests for power - basically, the game becomes the Pokemon TV series, as the characters travel the land, having adventures as they seek pokemon whatever it is that gives them abilities (teachers, mentors, ancient tomes to read, magic crystals they have to crush and snort, or whatever). Maybe there's a larger arc woven through all that, maybe not.

 

[MGibster]

Yeah it would need to be either a pretty quickly resolved mechanic, or push the model more toward learning while doing the normal adventure stuff, ie investigating, researching, engaging with the problem (conflict), and during downtime.

A lot to think about.

I think the most difficult part is that you really have to plan something like this. In a Zelda game, getting a new ability is often connected with accessing new areas of the map. i.e. You get bombs and suddenly you can blow up some rocks that were blocking the way or find secret locations in dungeons.

 

[pogre]

I have done this in a D&D style game years ago. I think it was during a 3e campaign. I usually ran one-on-one sessions to cover these character development "quests." It was quite involved and a lot of fun. My players just do not have time to do this sort of thing these days. I think it could work with the whole group assuming they are bought in and there are few overbearing timelines for the group to meet.

 

[Micah Sweet]

To be clear, this would also mean that you could seek out and earn magic items, strongholds, etc.

You’d probably need to still have levels, to show when you have the power to cast spells of a certain level, or the few automatically increasing features like probably sneak attack or spirit points, etc

Completing challenges to gain more HP or proficiency bonus or get expertise sounds fun, but in order to still have level one feature packages to start from that are familiar, and to allow the game to still be a type of D&D game, maybe trials to gain levels would be better.

I definitely support training as a concept anyway, so this would be a fun experiment, and would also support verisimilitude in the world (which as you know is very important to me).