D&D 5E Earning Levels In Game? (+)

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
I think this would work really well in a sandbox game, where specific locations can be designated as having the trainer/item/mystic hoodoo needed for power gain. Reminds me of the Ultima series, where specific towns had a trainer that specialized in a type of training that they could provide up to a certain degree of ability.
 

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doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
I think this would work really well in a sandbox game, where specific locations can be designated as having the trainer/item/mystic hoodoo needed for power gain. Reminds me of the Ultima series, where specific towns had a trainer that specialized in a type of training that they could provide up to a certain degree of ability.
Yeah I do think that you want a lot of player engagement, so figuring out the game state in session 0 should include players place some masters and establishing that some organizations are influential in the area.

It also helps to establish story elements in the classes that lend themselves to it. My Kensei class (finally landed on this for the monk rebuild) has lore around other kensei and like duels to establish mastery and prove your worth to learn a school’s secret techniques, etc. Something common to Asia and Europe at different points.

The Aethernaut has a similar vibe but a bit more “represent your school or mentor” vibe.

The Anathemir can steal spells and abilities from evil casters and anathema, and can study with other ritualists.

The Witch is a sort of Druid/Wizard that learns spells like a wizard.

The Assassin is a ritualist and crafter of specialized tools like hidden weapons and poisons and disguises. I’m still working on ways for Guilds to share secrets.

When I rebuild bards, their Songs will be like techniques or rituals.

And then all characters can gain feats and such.

Add to that magic items, and feats that grant access to rituals or techniques or whatever, and there is a lot of reason to ask around if the town you’re in has any masters in it.
 

jdrakeh

Front Range Warlock
In AD&D 1e, per the DMG, leveling is not automatic, so I think this kind of hits on what you're suggesting. By the RAW, in AD&D all characters must study or train to gain levels (detailed mechanics for such are given).
 

What if everyone learned new features like a wizard learns spells, but little to no automatically learned stuff?

Maybe even having to do something to gain more HP or a higher proficiency?

Has anyone done this in a D&D style game? Am I just sleeping on cool indie games that already do this?

Does it sound fun?

I have done something similar. My main recommendation is not to do "no automatic learning", but to use this only when it fits in to the story.

My expereince was in a 3.5e game. I had an Assassin. On multiple occasions, he had to meet up with his guild to learn new techniques. The most important time was entering the guild, starting the prestige class, and getting the Death Attack ability. The DM didn't make me go back for every new class ability, but I had to go back and train with them regularly. IIRC (this was years ago), the DM also had other players report in for training a few times; the cleric had to check in with the church, the wizard had to study, etc.

As I remember, it worked reasonably well. It gave the characters some background, and ties to the local community. I had zero complaints at the time.

But it also really forced things into the world building. Basically, we either had to be near the home city where the campaign started, or there had to satellite places to learn things from whenever we leveled up. On one occasion when I wanted to train as an assassin, the DM basically had to write in an assassin's guild in the town we were in, as the only other option would be telling me to wait to level while the others got to. Ditto with the cleric; by luck or design they worshiped a god that was very popular in the setting, so there were conveniently many churches to visit. Did you ever find it suspicious that stores always seem to stock the weapons that the players prefer, or always have the right size armor, etc? It was basically like that on a much grander scale.

In my current 5e game, I don't think this idea would work at all. Our starting story was that we were all wanderers who basically met at a town that was a small crossroads. We had no home base (until just a couple sessions ago), no central town to call home, and spent a lot of time traveling the countryside. At one point in the campaign we decided to make a trip back to one character's home monastery, and it took months to travel there (both IRL and in game time). And we have very varied backgrounds. If we had to make special trips and side quests for each different characters to level up, we may never have time to do anything else.

I think the best way to use this type of leveling might be to do it only on very rare an meaningful occasions, rather than all the time. Use it at important epochs to give one player a short "day in the limelight" plot that the whole party joins them for. The bard has to get special training for one specific college features; the rogue needs a macguffin to train in blindsense; the cleric needs to perform a special ritual before they can cast 9th level spells. If you try and implement "no automatic learning" I suspect it could become boring and tedious quickly. But used rarely it would be a great way to help flesh out individual character arcs.

Finally, I think training is inherently easier for more independent classes that thrive on internal or universal power sources. Sorcerers that cast based on wild innate ability or druids that only need to commune with nature to study clearly have an advantage. They can learn new skills just about anywhere. Conversely, classes that tend towards social order, like a monk that trains at a monastery or wizards that studies books, will have a harder time leveling up because of the structure that their narrative requires to learn. Some people might like that challenge but others may not like it. The DM would have to do a lot of character vetting or custom world design if the goal is to make the field level.
 

Li Shenron

Legend
Has anyone done this in a D&D style game?
Yeah, it has probably been done countless of times in the last 48 years :p

You can keep using the D&D rules of your favourite edition (or any other RPG) and replace strict level-based character advancement with more granular advancement, the easiest way however is probably to still use levels as a background reference, meaning that you need to earn all the benefits corresponding to your next level, before starting to earn any benefit of the level after that. Example: as a Sorcerer, you need to first earn Font of Magic and 2 Sorcery Points plus an extra spell known and extra 1st level slot (the benefits of 2nd level), before earning Metamagic and any 2nd level slot (the benefits of 3rd level). Otherwise, if you completely turn it into a level-less GURPS-style advancement, you'll obviously have a much harder job balancing the advancement of different PCs on your own.

Independently, you could choose other various options in combination:

- to still grant XP points and let the players "spend" them in exchange for individual benefits of the next level (divide the total XP for next level as you see fit) or not using XP points at all, for example granting those benefits as rewards for adventuring deeds

- let them choose which benefit to earn, versus trigger a specific benefit when they use (successfully or not is up to you) a relative ability (example: can earn next spellcasting level only after they successfully used all their known spells at least once)

- require in-character training for the most interesting new abilities

Bottom line: these ideas only work well in a slow-paced campaign, if you use the standard 5e level advancement rates then breaking down each level into smaller advancement means to stop and grant micro-advancement to at least someone after every single action scene...
 

The variant I thought of was: what if all advancement came from items? Or at least most magic did?

Basically, under this idea you don't get (formerly) class features because of training, but because you got the right item that gives you the feature; a paladin is ultimately just someone with a holy avenger - a sword that grants smites, lay on hands, and aura of protect to the (approved) weilder.

To advance as a paladin, get yourself some more or better relic items.

Of course that doesn't work with all fantasies (wizards should still be studying etc) - but it's a good fit for divine classes. Just add in some really good advice to dms on how often to provide rewards and it should totally work.
 

TwoSix

Dirty, realism-hating munchkin powergamer
The basic principles I tend to look for in a diegetic focused game, to greater or lesser degrees, are:

1) Character building and character progression are divorced. You can have intensive, detailed rules around building the character. The power level of the created character can be anywhere from zero to hero. But once the character is created, that creation doesn't have fixed rules for how the character changes and gains power once they're in play.

2) Character progression doesn't happen at a metagame level. If you, as a player, are picking from options contained in the game rules, that's in opposition to diegetic play. The character progression can have rules associated to it, but the rules aren't presented as player choices.

Now, these are purist ideals, and I can't think of any game that hits it 100%. Leveled games with class progressions, like the D&D family of games, are pretty much in direct opposition to this concept, which is one reason it's underexplored in the TTRPG space.
 

I've done similar. And it's worked, for a bit. But its not something that works well for me in general. Often it turns into a campaign seeking new abilities. Or it results in the GM putting in 'things' just so the PCs can gain the new abilities.

And then there is the way I think of experience and learning. Doing something like the OP makes me think of an athlete, who doesn't get better at the game they play (football, soccer, basketball, etc) by playing the game, but by coming across some coach or book that tells them how to better shoot a 3 point. Sure... there is a little bit of reality there, a coach or a book can help you improve your skills, more at the beginner levels than the expert ones though.

But the big thing, imo, is the focus of the adventure. Is it about solving some crisis, or gaining power?
 


doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
You could lift bits from Zelda: Breath of the Wild.

That’s my main inspiration, actually.

I do think that you’d need to make sure that multiple characters can be doing something interesting and useful in a given spot.

Or base advancement more on team accomplishment, but then we are getting much more into “build an entirely new game maybe using a different foundation” territory. FiTD seems like it could handle that well.
 

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