Eberron and Level Tiers?

[Ashrem Bayle]

In 3.5, most NPCs in Eberron are less than 5th level. Players who start nearing level 10 really start to become legendary.

That said, how do you think Eberron will/should handle the level tiers? Do you think the default 4e level tiers matches Eberron's style already?

 

[Kordeth]

I think Heroic and Paragon map quite well to Eberron--Epic might be a little more difficult, but there are certainly threats that could qualify.

Example 4E Eberron campaign, in the style of the latest Dungeoncraft article:

1st Level: The PCs start in Sharn as veterans of the Last War looking to use their skills to make a bit of coin. They're hired by agents of Merrix d'Cannith to retrieve a schema from a creation forge in the bowels of the city. (A beefed up for tough 4E characters version of the adventure from the ECS.)

Heroic Tier: The characers continue working for Merrix, gradually being drawn in to intrigues with the other branches of Cannith. They might sojourn briefly into the Mournlands, or take a journey to Stormreach to do some trading, but the jungles of Xen'drik are still forebidding and dangerous.

10th Level: The PCs uncover Merrix's hidden creation forge and have to fight their way past House Cannith assassins. This is the climax of the Heroic Tier.

Paragon Tier: Fleeing to Stormreach to lick their wounds, the PCs learn that House Cannith has stepped up excavations into the ruins of the giant kingdoms. Battling drow, giants, and dragons, the PCs must discover what plans the old Gorgon is enacting.

Epic Tier: Cannith's foolish excavations have destroyed the ancient binding magics that kept Dal Quor from reaching conjunction with Eberron, and the Plane of Dreams is hurtling toward the world with ten million Quori ready and willing to conquer the world. Only the epic PCs have a chance of stopping them--but can they do it in time?

 

[Rechan]

Eberron has some high level NPCs, and HIGH level threats. It's nice that to a degree, many of the villainous organizations seem to be based on tiers.

Heroic - The Aurum, the Children of Winter/Ashbound, The Emerald Claw, Cults of the Dragon Below. The Trust, some dragonmarked houses. The Dreaming Dark.

Upper Heroic/Low Paragon - The Lord of Blades.

Paragon - The Chamber, The Cabinet of Faces, The Blood of Vol (and Vol Herself), Mordain Fleshweaver, The Lords of Dust. The Dreaming Dark.

Epic - The Lords of Dust, the Rajahs, the Daelkyr. The Quori.

 

[Kordeth]

Eberron has some high level NPCs, and HIGH level threats. It's nice that to a degree, many of the villainous organizations seem to be based on tiers.

Heroic - The Aurum, the Children of Winter/Ashbound, The Emerald Claw, Cults of the Dragon Below. The Trust, some dragonmarked houses. The Dreaming Dark.

Upper Heroic/Low Paragon - The Lord of Blades.

Paragon - The Chamber, The Cabinet of Faces, The Blood of Vol (and Vol Herself), Mordain Fleshweaver, The Lords of Dust. The Dreaming Dark.

Epic - The Lords of Dust, the Rajahs, the Daelkyr. The Quori.

Good point--I'd forgotten several of those. I think the biggest change in Eberron vs. Core 4E is I foresee a lot less planar adventuring at the Epic tier. Rechan's right, though, there are plenty of worthy epic-scale threats in Eberron. And Tira Miron's transformation into the Voice of the Flame sure sounds like a Demigod epic destiny to me.

 

[Rechan]

I think the biggest change in Eberron vs. Core 4E is I foresee a lot less planar adventuring at the Epic tier.

Why?

Planar exploration is so EASY in Eberron. All you have to do is walk into the plane when it's in line with the Material, or you could find a hole in a manifest zone.

But further, it's really easy to split up the 4e cosmology into Eberron's planes. There's the three elemental planes that you can toss chunks of the Elemental Chaos into. Thelandis and Lamania can get the Feywild. Mabar and Dolurrh = the Shadowfell.

The Astral Sea might be connected to that positive energy plane that the Aerenal are connected to. Or it could just be dropped in wholesale.

 

[Kordeth]

Why?

Planar exploration is so EASY in Eberron. All you have to do is walk into the plane when it's in line with the Material, or you could find a hole in a manifest zone.

Yeah, you're right, there's absolutely no reason planar adventuring would be hard in Eberron--I guess it's just that the setting has always felt more "earthly" to me, so I tend to think of extraplanar threats coming to Eberron, rather than heroes going out into the planes and adventuring. Purely a personal preference thing now that I think about it.

 

[Trolls]

In 3.5, most NPCs in Eberron are less than 5th level. Players who start nearing level 10 really start to become legendary.

That said, how do you think Eberron will/should handle the level tiers? Do you think the default 4e level tiers matches Eberron's style already?

I'm with everyone else, the tiers seem to fit Eberron perfectly. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the tiers system grew out of concepts explored when designing the setting itself.

 

[Rechan]

Yeah, you're right, there's absolutely no reason planar adventuring would be hard in Eberron--I guess it's just that the setting has always felt more "earthly" to me, so I tend to think of extraplanar threats coming to Eberron, rather than heroes going out into the planes and adventuring. Purely a personal preference thing now that I think about it.

That's probably because Eberron just looks really fun to explore, and there's less of an emphasis on the planes.

I don't like saying "Well, we're so high level, the only place left to go to challenge us is the planes". I was never a real big Plane guy. But in Eberron, the planes feel more like... Suburbs outside the big city; with the manifest zones, they're intimately connected, and right next door.

 

[Kordeth]

Furthermore, 4E's "NPCs don't follow the same rules as PCs" philosophy means you can have pretty powerful NPCs who are still frail and not generally the adventurer types. I foresee lots of nobles and aristocrats even being statted as minions--sure, they might be skilled swordsmen or diplomats or leaders of men, but put them on the battlefield and they're at real risk of being gutted by a lucky peasant levy with a bec-de-corbin.

 

[stonegod]

I agree with the assessment that Eberron and tiers fit well together. In addition, I like to point out that 5th level 3.x != 5th level 4E in rough power as far as I know... I think the idea to stretch part of the middle levels makes a 1-to-1 mapping a bit difficult. Thus, some of the "low" level 3.x NPCs may have effectively higher "level" in 4, though only with certain abilities. Time will tell though.