Eberron-as corny as I think?

[Hussar]

My point would be that much of what people are bitching about in Eberron has existed in the game for decades. Why aren't people bitching about that.

 

[Asmor]

The adventurers walk into a tavern for a well-deserved tankard or three. The other patrons of the tavern see a dragonling and, knowing that a dragon's skin is going to be worth a lot of shekels to someone somewhere, whether it's the noble lord with bounty on dragons, or the wizard looking for dragon scales as a spell component, immediately attack the dragonling en masse. The adventurers escape the tavern, only to encounter the town guard who, upon seeing the dragonling, immediately attack as well...

Sigh... you seem rather hung up on that little point.

You see, this actually came up in one of my games. My fiancée, in fact, wanted to play a dragon. She wanted to play a silver dragon to be exact. So I was working it out so that a silver dragon would need the party to take care of her daughter for reasons unimportant to this discussion.

The fact that she was a dragon was to be a very large complication for the reasons you mentioned, more or less. Lots of unscrupulous people, if they knew of her, would want her. In fact, the main evil organization of the campaign was specifically after her and knew exactly who she was.

Now, metallic dragons have this wonderful little ability... they can turn into humans (or others)! Solves 99% of your problems right there! Suddenly, it's not so difficult to blend the little wyrmling into regular society, unless the PC makes some bad decisions. Instead of being a plot derailer, the fact that the character's a dragon si strictly a plot device, and a pretty damn good one at that.

This might cause problems if the player wanted to be a chromatic dragon, but there's a bunch of different ways you could address that. You could just give them the same shapeshifting ability as a metallic dragon. You could say that they're a rogue "good" chromatic dragon if, as is likely, having an evil character would spoil the group dynamics. You could just say to the player "Sorry, but I'd rather you not play a chromatic dragon... how about one of these metallics? They're shiny!" (remember, compromise!)

Yes, the DM does the lion's share of the work. In fact, I'll go a step farther and say the DM does all the work. But all that work is for nought if it isn't tailored to and engaging the players. One of the best things about this hobby, IMHO, is the surprises and curve balls players can throw you and being able to readjust things on the fly. If you just want to make your world and tell your story, you might as well just write a novel. I don't think it's a burden letting players influence me, I take it as one of the perks.

 

[The Shaman]

My point would be that much of what people are bitching about in Eberron has existed in the game for decades. Why aren't people bitching about that.

Because maybe what they dislike about Eberron was never part of their experience playing the game? Because while some D&D settings like the Wilderlands or the Known World included a more technological or science fantasy aspect, other more popular settings didn't? Because they aren't as focused on comparing how D&D was played by some people then to how it's played now? Because it has nothing to do with what they think of Eberron?

I'm just spitballing here.

 

[Asmor]

My point would be that much of what people are bitching about in Eberron has existed in the game for decades. Why aren't people bitching about that.

Opinions are like ***holes. Everyone's got 'em and the loudest ones stink the most.

I'd wager that if you looked up some old archives on RPG BBSes of the era (there's gotta be some) you'd find people railing about how D&D was totally ruining Chainmail.

 

[Spatula]

Aha! Now we're into "player rights to new splat" territory, which is a new and interesting facet to D&D that 3E has spawned, and a double-edged sword all of it's own with regard to player entitlement, DM control over their own campaign and rules complexity....I guess I'm being cruel and unfair by restricting the campaign to just using core plus some FR stuff, too...[valleygirl]whateva.[/valleygirl] I don't see how negotiating with, outwitting, allying with or beating NPC golems to a pulp isn't "playing with them", either.

Perfect material for a new thread, mind you, although I think it was covered in some "think before saying no" threads recently.

EDIT: Nope, even more recently....that thread asking for why he can't get players to go with a party of "classic heroes", as opposed to a random menagerie of mutants.

Players (well, certain players) have always wanted to play unusual characters, for as long as the game has existed. 3E didn't spawn anything, in that regard.

 

[The Shaman]

Sigh... you seem rather hung up on that little point.

It's not a little point.

In my HB fantasy setting, dragons weren't color-coded, and none of them were innate shapeshifters, but for the sake of argument, let's say that I could introduce a metallic dragon from another plane, or give the dragon character a magic ring that allowed her to polymorph self three times per day, with human form as the only option.

I could do those things. I may not choose to, however. It will depend on the setting, the feel of the game-world, the kinds of adventures the characters are likely to encounter. If I'm not interested in running a game with dragons as player characters, then the player can choose a different character or find another game.

Yes, the DM does the lion's share of the work. In fact, I'll go a step farther and say the DM does all the work. But all that work is for nought if it isn't tailored to and engaging the players.

Engaging to the players, absolutely. Tailored to them, not necessarily.

One of the best things about this hobby, IMHO, is the surprises and curve balls players can throw you and being able to readjust things on the fly. If you just want to make your world and tell your story, you might as well just write a novel.

Asmor, I'm about as far from a "storyteller" game master as you're likely to find, so until you've played in one of my games, let's leave the pigeonholing out of it, 'kay?

 

[Hussar]

Because maybe what they dislike about Eberron was never part of their experience playing the game? Because while some D&D settings like the Wilderlands or the Known World included a more technological or science fantasy aspect, other more popular settings didn't?

Now this one I'd buy if it ever came up. However, 99% of the complaining looks an awful lot more like:

Because they aren't as focused on comparing how D&D was played by some people then to how it's played now? Because it has nothing to do with what they think of Eberron?

I'm just spitballing here.

Because most of what I see is people bitching about how Eberron is "ruining" the game by moving away from Tolkeinesque roots. Medieval setting with magic in the background. Whatever you want to call it.

Look at this thread. You can see it through many of the comments. How Eberron is taking from bad sources, ruining the game, catering to the video game crowd (ie younger people who are worse roleplayers than the critic)... whatever standard crap that people have been flinging like monkeys.

If it was simply a case of not liking the setting because it doesn't appeal, that's one thing. Heck, Eberron doesn't even really appeal to me all that much. However, condemning it because it's ruining the game is stupid.

Look at the criticisms. Airships and robots and non-standard races. Yet, these have existed in the game for an extremely long time. I've got a Dragon magazine from the mid 80's with rules for creating airships. Golems have been in the game for some time. I had a Krynnish Minotaur character in 1e.

All these gripes about how the game is radically changing are revisionist history. These elements have been in the game for years. Sure, they may not have been the front part, but, to suddenly say that the setting is wrongbadfun because it uses elements that have always been there to be used is stupid.

Yes, I agree 100% that race/class/whatever must fit in the setting.

So, how is it that warforged don't fit in Eberron?

 

[genshou]

So, how is it that warforged don't fit in Eberron?

I would say that warforged fit perfectly in Eberron. However, the only reason for that I can see is because the author decided there should be warforged in Eberron.

 

[boredgremlin]

I take it you're not terribly familiar with the 'pulp' literature of the early 1900s?

Early 1900's? You mean like 60 or 70 years before i was borne? Nope, guess I it missed it in my age of nostalgia, which pretty much goes as far back as early metallica and everything before that sucked.

 

[boredgremlin]

Eberron reminds me of playing a Final Fantasy game. I like final fantasy, the problem is that i have played 11 of them now, including an online version, And to be honest final fantasy is for screwing around after work and relaxing, D&D is for halfway serius interactions between freinds and high drama. I have read Eberron and been a player in two games and it had no drama at all to me, i kept picturing Cloud beating down a monster and Sephiroth cackling in the background.

So ebberon has nothing to offer to me, i totally felt like it was a setting built around the core, most of which i feel suck. So i kicked eberron to the wayside and none of my players complained since none of them liked it much either. I would much rather see WOTC support and resurect Dark Sun then put out some stinky Ebberon books. Sure the forgotten realms is old, tired and boring, but they could replace it with something different and solid, rather then just taking ultra high magic and silly fantasy the umpteenth degree.