D&D 5E Eberron versus Multiverse

[Salthorae]

Early Spelljammer just sort of had Athas there as a place to visit

it is mentioned in the Complete Spacefarer's handbook as a place that you can't go. Then it says (basically for DM's that DID want to include it), that it is so far away that no ones' ever been, there are no routes mapped anywhere to it.

So it exists, but visiting it? Only if the DM really wants that to happen because it's too hard to integrate as a setting, is basically the official Spelljammer stance.

There was the occasional two way portal mentioned in various Planescape sources

There was also the Gith invasion to Athas that left the Gith there, as well as a subsequent Gith invasion in the Black Spine adventure. So, portals exist, but as the adventure shows, it's very hard to open one from the Athas side.

 

[tetrasodium]

Please, the idea that a Sorcerer King knows more about magic and is more powerful then Elminister, even a nerfed 5e Elminister is crazy, SKs are glorified magic scavengers, in a Spell Dual, Elminister would slaughter the SK, because while the SK is draining flowers for magic, El is drawing upon the weave and Mystria. And that is before you count the other two Archmages.

What's that?... the lore of FR Ignores and overrides the lore of some other setting(s) when applying a hamfisted setting mashup & you don't like that FR loses badly if you respect the lore of settings forced to be involved in FR's nonsense?... FR's lore is cargocult to the core & does not mix well with settings like Darksun & Eberron where magic was far more advanced & is treated as a science to varying degrees.

Ever notice how it's not fans of FR saying that other settings are intruding on FR. Also in my example extending the published meetup to add powerful figures from other settings I included more than just the SK, Poor little eleminster & his backwards cargo cult spin on magic has nothing on The Dragons who went in prepared with the plot armor level Scry & Die Draconic Prophecy at his side. Mystara's backing does Eleminster no good once she's bound or just killed again.

 

[Gradine]

Obnoxious/Overbearing/Intrusive D&D Setting Lore is like... one of the handful of problems in our lives where ignoring it makes it go away.

Why would anyone ruin such a rare and beautiful event?

 

[Mirtek]

does not mix well with settings like Darksun & Eberron where magic was far more advanced & is treated as a science to varying degrees.

And yet by the game rules that doesn't give them any advantage.

The 2e dragon of Athas would likely lose against the 2e version of Elminster. The 4e version would crush 4e Elminster as he has been intentionally presented as much weakened from the spellplague.

I didn't find any official 3e stats for the dragon, but i'd guess that 3e Elminster would also lose, as his 3e incarnation is a terrible jumble of different classes (while fitting his history it really hurts his effectiveness)

 

[tetrasodium]

And yet by the game rules that doesn't give them any advantage.

The 2e dragon of Athas would likely lose against the 2e version of Elminster. The 4e version would crush 4e Elminster as he has been intentionally presented as much weakened from the spellplague.

I didn't find any official 3e stats for the dragon, but i'd guess that 3e Elminster would also lose, as his 3e incarnation is a terrible jumble of different classes (while fitting his history it really hurts his effectiveness)

Easy solution, don't make hamfisted lazy fanfic level setting mashups* in setting specific books & find a way to respect the lore plus baseline assumptions of both. The dragons presented as "mere monsters" in the MM represent the dragons of FR's baselines not the Dragons of Eberron.

@Gradine sometimes that "lore" is part of what makes up the setting's baselines & defines the settings. FR is not FR if you throw in eberron style shades grey of morality, dump the drgonmarked houses complete with their eberron role in the world into faerun, bind all the gods & make it clear that they are an unprovable thing, and treat magic as a science rather than a mysterious poorly understood gift from the gods. Similar problems exist when you start shipping in lore from a setting like FR over top of eberron or dark sun's lore & don't put any care into not breaking things. Even when ToA inserted the merchant princes , WotC didn't say abny rediculous nonsense like "Bob is the house cannith of Faerun" because there are massive differences between the merchant princes & dragonmarked houses despite some vague similaritiesroughly on par with khyber & the underdark... Meanwhile phrases like "Khyber is the Underdark" keeps getting printed in eberron sourcebooks again and again edition after edition

* Baator/asmodious & the like from 4e is unquestionably the high apex of these... but X exists in $settingA and Y in $settingB has some vague similarities if you ignore the huge differences so Y is $settingB's X is a close second.

 

[Mirtek]

Easy solution, don't make hamfisted lazy fanfic level setting mashups* in setting specific books & find a way to respect the lore plus baseline assumptions of both. The dragons presented as "mere monsters" in the MM represent the dragons of FR's baselines not the Dragons of Eberron.

Except that FR never had dragons as mere monsters. They are only more scattered than the dragons of Eberron, since their empire is still intact while the FR dragons lost their's ages ago.

Still you won't find any FR dragon that is a "mere monster", they'll at least rule over a small network of minions.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

FR was one of the first settings that wanted to make Dragons more special and powerful.

 

[Mirtek]

FR was one of the first settings that wanted to make Dragons more special and powerful.

The FR dragons are still secretly playing this great draconic games that has been going on since ancient times, where they manipulte lesser creatures like pawn. I just forgot how it's called and I am too lazy to google.

Metallics are playing it too, with and against the chromatics

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Thought that was from a generic D&D sourcebook not a FR one.

 

[tetrasodium]

Except that FR never had dragons as mere monsters. They are only more scattered than the dragons of Eberron, since their empire is still intact while the FR dragons lost their's ages ago.

Still you won't find any FR dragon that is a "mere monster", they'll at least rule over a small network of minions.

the "mere monster" wording was a deliberate reference

Spoiler: Rising193

DRAGONS
The dragons of Eberron are much more than mere monsters; adventurers will rarely barge into a dragon's lair in search of its treasure horde. Dragons in the world are either aloof and unapproachable, or they are curious and manipulative, pulling strings behind the scenes or trying to influence the world in arcane ways.

Most dragons live on the mystery-shrouded continent of Argonnessen and avoid contact with those they see as lesser creatures. They are obsessed with the Draconic Prophecy, which is a map of possible futures rather than a clear-cut prediction. Its paths are revealed in the motion of planes and moons, in the actions of the dragonmarked houses, and in dozens of other more subtle manifestations. Most dragons that are active in Khorvaire are part of a cabal known as the Chamber.

A dragon in Khorvaire that isn't part of the Chamber could be an exile driven from Argonnessen for some crime or a scholar pursuing independent research. Some orphaned dragons grow up in Khorvaire without contact with Argonnessen, and some dragons have been twisted by the daelkyr or corrupted by fiends; any of these could be an antagonist if the adventure you're crafting calls for a cruel dragon.

The dragons of Eberron aren't restricted in alignment-good red dragons and evil gold dragons are equally common. Most dragons tend toward neutrality. Even those with good alignments often don't consider the impact of their actions on lesser beings; if a Chamber dragon must destroy a human village to foil the plans of a demon, it will do so without hesitation.