D&D 5E Eberron versus Multiverse

[tetrasodium]

I am talking about the Mythological Hell like from Dante's Inferno. And it is a mix of those things and is described as being the Underdark with Hellish and Abyssal extra bits.

Just because you don't like it being compared to the the Underdark and Abyss does not mean the comparison is not there. Given that it is literally called Eberron's Underdark, but with ways to horrible Demiplanes that resemble Abyssal Layers, and serving as the prison of powerful fiends. (Like Dante's Hell.)

The problem comes in that there is too much violently incompatible lore baked into those things from the default/FR setting & that lore is very often written in a way that suggests it is always applicable. Even when keith baker said "Likewise, the fact that this means that Cyric and Bane exist somewhere in the universe is utterly meaningless in Eberron. " still asked about overdeities because those are important to some other setting's lore & their supporting baggage. It's not the comparison, it's the fact that those setting specific things can't be cleanly separated from the incompatible supporting lore of other settings.

edit: Barney & godzilla are both a guy in a dinosaur suit, but it's wildly misleading to suggest that godzilla is tokyo's Barney just because godzilla was once given the friend to children everywhere moniker.

 

[Beleriphon]

. This idea was given to me by the wiki entry on Ao who has cryptically answered to a higher power referred to only as the Luminous Being (perhaps a loner Old One).
The only way any two multiverses connect is through the Bleed (the Astral Plane between two multiverses).

That's a good idea. That said, my understanding AO and the Luminous Being is self referential gag that supports AO knows he's running a TTRPG setting through the DM, much the same way Deadpool knows he lives in a comic book.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

The problem comes in that there is too much violently incompatible lore baked into those things from the default/FR setting & that lore is very often written in a way that suggests it is always applicable. Even when keith baker said "Likewise, the fact that this means that Cyric and Bane exist somewhere in the universe is utterly meaningless in Eberron. " still asked about overdeities because those are important to some other setting's lore & their supporting baggage. It's not the comparison, it's the fact that those setting specific things can't be cleanly separated from the incompatible supporting lore of other settings.

edit: Barney & godzilla are both a guy in a dinosaur suit, but it's wildly misleading to suggest that godzilla is tokyo's Barney just because godzilla was once given the friend to children everywhere moniker.

The Underdark and Abyssal Layers are not setting specific, as they are in multiple D&D settings. They are normally a generic D&D thing, and with some influence from other sources have been combined into Khyber.

To use your Dinosaur Suit analogy. It's more the difference between Godzilla and Gamera, than Godzilla and Barney.

 

[tetrasodium]

The Underdark and Abyssal Layers are not setting specific, as they are in multiple D&D settings. They are normally a generic D&D thing, and with some influence from other sources have been combined into Khyber.

To use your Dinosaur Suit analogy. It's more the difference between Godzilla and Gamera, than Godzilla and Barney.

No, Those things in Forgotten realms & Greyhawk* are virtually the same thing with the serial numbers filed off. Khyber is not those things just as Darksun's blackspine filled with Gith is not the underdark either. The conceit that just because the default setting of forgotten realms has something with extremely tenuous similarity to something in other settings if you squint needs to rot in the bin beside midichlorians & baator. Are you seriously broken up that severing the name "underdark" from Khyber &Blackspine to prevent confusion of (often new)players who think they know underdark causing their GM to constantly correct expectations... or are you just arguing because it will make it harder for you to play your drow "drizzot" in eberron or darksun where he absolutely does not belong?

* I don't know what it is in mystara... If it's the same with serial numbers filed off, then alll the more reason the actually different versions not be called the underdark. If it's different then that's more evidence for why it should have had a different name not so ladden with lore from another setting

 

[MonsterEnvy]

No, Those things in Forgotten realms & Greyhawk* are virtually the same thing with the serial numbers filed off. Khyber is not those things just as Darksun's blackspine filled with Gith is not the underdark either. The conceit that just because the default setting of forgotten realms has something with extremely tenuous similarity to something in other settings if you squint needs to rot in the bin beside midichlorians & baator. Are you seriously broken up that severing the name "underdark" from Khyber &Blackspine to prevent confusion of (often new)players who think they know underdark causing their GM to constantly correct expectations... or are you just arguing because it will make it harder for you to play your drow "drizzot" in eberron or darksun where he absolutely does not belong?

* I don't know what it is in mystara... If it's the same with serial numbers filed off, then alll the more reason the actually different versions not be called the underdark. If it's different then that's more evidence for why it should have had a different name not so ladden with lore from another setting

You got pretty insulting here. You are the one who seems broken up that there is even comparison.

Not that it changes what the books say.

And Khyber is the Underdark and the source of aberrations and fiends, forever struggling against her bonds and yearning to destroy the world above.

Khyber the Dragon Below embodies the Underdark,an endless labyrinth spreading below the world.

Khyber, the Dragon Below, comprises the underdark of the world, the labyrinthine caverns that snake beneath the surface and fill the depths of the planet.

 

[ChaosOS]

The big points on Khyber v Underdark is quite honestly the lack of Drow in Khyber. On one hand that's only a single race, on the other hand my impression of the Underdark is 95% of adventures revolve around the Drow, so...

With regards to the "second layer of reality" I think Khyber is more inclined to get freaky than the Underdark, but the Underdark is still plenty happy to get weird.

 

[tetrasodium]

You got pretty insulting here. You are the one who seems broken up that there is even comparison.

Not that it changes what the books say.

Remember that this absurd tangent began because you took offense to my pointing out in part of a post responding to a question on if the progenitor dragons (one wasnamed Khyber) was explicitly an OverDeity. that khyber was "very much not the nine hells or underdark".

Congratulations, your very own attempt to justify how similar the barely similar things are demonstrates the exact kind of strife the name causes at the table... That comes right down to claiming "insult" over having drizzt clones invading settings they don;t belong in getting mocked. Thank you for proving my point so perfectly.

 

[Umbran]

Remember that this absurd tangent began ...

Mod Note:

Where it began is not relevant. No matter how it began, we ask you to be respectful of others. If you aren't up to that, I strongly suggest you take some time away from the thread.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

The big points on Khyber v Underdark is quite honestly the lack of Drow in Khyber. On one hand that's only a single race, on the other hand my impression of the Underdark is 95% of adventures revolve around the Drow, so...

With regards to the "second layer of reality" I think Khyber is more inclined to get freaky than the Underdark, but the Underdark is still plenty happy to get weird.

There is quite a bit of stuff in the Underdark that does not involve Drow. Kuo-Toa, Beholder, Mind Flayers, those are all creatures that primarily hang in the Underdark.

Also a subset of Drow do hang out in Khyber.

"Finally, the Umbragen are descended from drow who fled into the depths of the earth when the giant civilization fell. They wield sophisticated magic in their unceasing battles against the daelkyr and the other aberrations of the underworld."

And I agree that Khyber is more inclined to get freaky than the Underdark. As it's also the equivalent of the Abyss and Hell.

Remember that this absurd tangent began because you took offense to my pointing out in part of a post responding to a question on if the progenitor dragons (one wasnamed Khyber) was explicitly an OverDeity. that khyber was "very much not the nine hells or underdark".

Congratulations, your very own attempt to justify how similar the barely similar things are demonstrates the exact kind of strife the name causes at the table... That comes right down to claiming "insult" over having drizzt clones invading settings they don;t belong in getting mocked. Thank you for proving my point so perfectly.

That was not me taking offense, that was me elaborating that Khyber was like the Hells and Underdark put together.

Also they are not barely similar, they are very similar. Down to the books saying so.
I did not prove your point at all. I don't care about the Drow being in the Underdark in Eberron. Even if there was none down there, I would still say it's like the Underdark.

 

[Azzy]

edit: Barney & godzilla are both a guy in a dinosaur suit, but it's wildly misleading to suggest that godzilla is tokyo's Barney just because godzilla was once given the friend to children everywhere moniker.

There's a lot here to unpack... The idea that Godzilla is Japan's Barney is so entertaining that it is a must to meditate upon. On the flipside, OTOH, that Barney is America's Godzilla is enough to make Baby Jesus™ cry.

And, no, it was Gamera that was a friend to children everywhere (IIRC).

I do love me some kaiju.