D&D General Eberron - why don't you run it? [-]

I must admit, I'm not a huge fan of mech based PCs (which I tend to equate to Eberron, perhaps incorrectly, happy to be corrected) for some reason, I really don't know why
Why do you equate mech based PCs? There aren't any meechs. Did your DM put some in? If you mean warforged, they are golems, magical and made of earthly materials, not mechanical in any way. But you probably knew that much from playing it.
 

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I LOVE Eberron as a setting and have run a pair of campaigns there before... but I have always known of and have had to try and reconcile the one fatal flaw of the setting:

Eberron is meant to be a wide setting when it comes to magic-- magic is everywhere and everyone uses it in their everyday lives... but it is not deep. There are exceedingly few high-level magic users in the setting, which is why magic items and magewrights/artificers are so prolific-- they are creating objects that allow for the more powerful magics to be wielded by many more people, because there just aren't enough actual magic-users able to wield that powerful magic themselves...

...except for the three to six members of the D&D party playing the game that are the stars of the show.

This has always been my stumbling block with the setting. How is it that we are supposed to make groups like the Dragonmarked Houses (for example) meaningful to the players and their characters-- groups that the party should want to deal with and interact with-- when those PCs will out-level them all and end up more powerful than every single other NPC person, group, or organization that they might ever come into contact with? It's hard to make the party want to interact with members of House Jorasco for healing when the Cleric in the party has more spell slots for more healing and more varied and powerful recovery options then any dragonmarked member they would ever interact with in a casual manner from the House. The issue of standard D&D leveling and character advancement completely runs counter to how characters within the world of Eberron are meant to be. At least in my opinion.

I honestly think Eberron as a setting is one that really should be run as an E6 game-- a game where no character advances past Level 6-- so that more powerful magics always remain out of reach of the party and then would require them to have to interact with the few and far between NPCs that have those powerful magics they need, or the magic items they can acquire. If teleportation circles remain only in the hands of dragonmarked members of House Orien and not at the party's beck and call just because we as a table were playing Eberron with standard D&D advancement and the PCs are now all 9th level... it would do a lot better to maintain the aesthetics of the setting.
I agree with the above, including the E6 suggestion especially, but would also add that the ubiquitous and high magic (both) is difficult for me to get my head around when running the world and adventures. Every time I have picked it up, I start thinking in terms of “if they use magic for THIS, then why not also for solving THAT problem?”
 


I agree with the above, including the E6 suggestion especially, but would also add that the ubiquitous and high magic (both) is difficult for me to get my head around when running the world and adventures. Every time I have picked it up, I start thinking in terms of “if they use magic for THIS, then why not also for solving THAT problem?”
Yep. Exactly. That's really the advantage that was theoretically gained by the Dragonmarked Houses-- 99.999% of the populace might have at best up to 3rd level spells... but the House members who exhibited the more powerful dragonmarks would give those individuals the 5th, 6th, 7th level spells etc. that practically nobody else would have. And its because of that the Houses were able to make their cheese because they had daily magic that could not be replicated by anyone else and thus they could profit from it by selling it off.

Now to Keith's (et. al.s) credit... they DID attempt to fix this fatal flaw in the setting by stating that having high-level magic spells weren't enough to produce the sorts of magitech the setting is known for... the Houses also had schema (aka blueprints) that were required to make all this magitech possible. So if you had a party of high-level PCs, they couldn't replace the Dragonmarked Houses or The Twelve or Arcanix etc. because they didn't have the schema needed to do what those groups did. But that didn't solve what to me is the actual "at-the-table adventuring issue" which is making these organizations worthwhile or necessary for the party to interact with. They won't need Orien for travel, they won't need Jorasco for healing, with Tiny Huts and Magnificent Mansions they won't need Ghallandra for housing, they'll be powerful enough that they won't need Deneith's or Tharashk's help for mercenaries and the like, the rogues in the party will be better spies for their needs than what any member of the Dark Lanterns or House Phiarlan could give them, etc. etc. etc. The higher the party's level... the more they can do it all for themselves, especially when almost every other NPC has powers that are at best 5th level, but mostly quite a bit below.
 

As a player, it's not my jam. I don't mind visiting it in a campaign, but I definitely don't want an entire campaign there. As far as a DM, it is not my aesthetics. I like the history. And can get behind the lore. But the aesthetics are just not my flavor. I am happy they added marks, bringing the "monstrous" races to the forefront, focused on the artificer, introduced constructs, etc. But, like most things in a D&D verse, once it is everywhere, it becomes nothing special.
An Eberron campaign does what a Shadowfell or Feywild campaign does. It takes what should be a unique individual, class, or way of power, and makes it commonplace. And to me, that ruins the aesthetics of any world building. In my head, common and norms help make uniqueness when telling a story.
 
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I LOVE Eberron as a setting and have run a pair of campaigns there before... but I have always known of and have had to try and reconcile the one fatal flaw of the setting:

Eberron is meant to be a wide setting when it comes to magic-- magic is everywhere and everyone uses it in their everyday lives... but it is not deep. There are exceedingly few high-level magic users in the setting, which is why magic items and magewrights/artificers are so prolific-- they are creating objects that allow for the more powerful magics to be wielded by many more people, because there just aren't enough actual magic-users able to wield that powerful magic themselves...

...except for the three to six members of the D&D party playing the game that are the stars of the show.

This has always been my stumbling block with the setting. How is it that we are supposed to make groups like the Dragonmarked Houses (for example) meaningful to the players and their characters-- groups that the party should want to deal with and interact with-- when those PCs will out-level them all and end up more powerful than every single other NPC person, group, or organization that they might ever come into contact with? It's hard to make the party want to interact with members of House Jorasco for healing when the Cleric in the party has more spell slots for more healing and more varied and powerful recovery options then any dragonmarked member they would ever interact with in a casual manner from the House. The issue of standard D&D leveling and character advancement completely runs counter to how characters within the world of Eberron are meant to be. At least in my opinion.

I honestly think Eberron as a setting is one that really should be run as an E6 game-- a game where no character advances past Level 6-- so that more powerful magics always remain out of reach of the party and then would require them to have to interact with the few and far between NPCs that have those powerful magics they need, or the magic items they can acquire. If teleportation circles remain only in the hands of dragonmarked members of House Orien and not at the party's beck and call just because we as a table were playing Eberron with standard D&D advancement and the PCs are now all 9th level... it would do a lot better to maintain the aesthetics of the setting.
I think this is a common misconception of Ebberon's world building. There is high level magic, about as much as Krynn, Mystara, or most of Oerth. The two things is that high powered magic is not openly part of society. Magewrights, dragonmarks and dragonshards free high level wizards and clerics from the mundanity of running temples and building lightning rails, so that they can be threats and important allies, not merchants. Or on the other side, not so many of them that the PCs are never not needed. There is no "let Drizzt or Elminster handle it" scenario, you aren't playing the Defenders waiting for the Avengers to show up, but it also doesn't mean Dr Strange and Dormammu aren't there behind the scenes either.

Limiting Eberron to only low level magic/play (e6) robs Eberron of the biggest threats: Daelkyr, Lords of Dust, the Quori, the giants of Xen'drik, the Lord of Blades, Lady Vol, etc. They exist and threaten Eberron in a variety of ways. You need someone to handle those threats and if Eberron doesn't have a Circle of the Eight, it's gotta be your PCs.

I think the other issue is that in D&D, magic item creation was primarily the realm of high level wizards. Eberron didn't want to make every member of house Cannith a 9th level wizard, so they created the cheats needed to allow low level non-wizards to make magic that replicated modern technology. That doesn't mean 9th level wizards don't exist, just you don't need a lot of them to justify the absurd level of everbright lanterns in Sharn.

So yeah, 9th level wizards still exist in Eberron as NPCs, it's just there aren't thousands of them and they aren't spending their days making eternal wands.
 

I think, for me, the reason I never got into Eberron is that I essentially have two preferences when it comes to fantasy roleplaying: familiar "generic" fantasy, or homebrew. I'm grateful to see other people's creations - they're great for inspiration - but I would never adopt one wholecloth unless it was in that first category of being "generic" enough that I can let my assumptions from past reading and roleplaying fill in the gaps. If I have to do homework to get a feel for a new setting, I'd rather just be making my own setting.
 


I really like Eberron D&D religion. The any alignment clerics, the multiple types like the cool Blood of Vol philosophy, the Silver Flame, gods of the Dark Six, the Three Dragons, the dragon below cults, the ancestor and hero worship, the different sects of druids, etc.

I do not care for the core Sovereign Host pantheon at all though. They just don’t register for me as interesting or memorable to the point I cannot really remember anything about them at all.
 

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